wizard underpowered?

[LostamongtheBarrens]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[Billiam Babble]

Do you mean in HQ, AHQ or WHQ?   For the one off games in WHQ he seems pretty powerful to a point, but perhaps being able to choose the spells instead of being dealt them would be a bonus.

[LostamongtheBarrens]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[Billiam Babble]

*bows out*
*insufficient data on Hero Quest available at this time  ... click-whirr... beep*

[Marchomer]

Billiam Babble wrote

*bows out*
*insufficient data on Hero Quest available at this time  ... click-whirr... beep*

LostamongtheBarrens wrote

I think Marchomer once told me he thought so to.

Yes I told! I can confirm!

LostamongtheBarrens wrote

I was thinking of updating the wizard, giving him a familar (or at least opportunity to purchase one) and the ability to purchase additional 'one off' spell scrolls between quests.  

In my HQ game (HACK! or HomerQuest like some players call it... ), I gave to the wizard the chance to "buy" a familiar, so he can cast (or stack) his spells through him. In this way the wizard can cast two spells in a round, so his attack power will be increased, in addition is highly recommended to put some scrolls and "totally / partial restore spells shrines" in the dungeon.
In my dungeon games these two things work pretty well.

[MortiS-the-Lost]

my group too found that the wizard in HeroQuest runs out of spells too quickly

the MortiS Quest solution to HeroQuest's wizard problems is as follows:

The wizard gets to pick 6 spells from any of the Hero Lores (later we wrote our own spell's based on the 8 lores in Warhammer). Spells can be cast as many times as the wizard like (the wizard get to keep the spell cards), however ... to cast a spell the wizard must roll under their Mind Points on 2D6, if they roll over the spell is not cast and nothing happens. Should the wizard roll a double the spell must be discarded and may not be cast again for the rest of the game.

Please remember these rule are used in conjunction with my group's Fate rules which means spell casters will normally spend a Fate Point to re-roll a failed or miscast spell and the balance of the game reflects this

[LostamongtheBarrens]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[MortiS-the-Lost]

You can find the basic outline of my Fate rules Here

The 8 Lores of Magic in Warhammer are:

Fire (Bright) - The wind of Aqshy
Metal (Gold) - The wind of Chamon
Shadow (Grey) - The wind of Ulgu
Beasts (Amber) - The wind of Ghur
Heavens (Celestial) - The wind of Azyr
Light (Light) - The wind of Hysh
Life (Jade) - The wind of Ghyran
Death (Amethyst) - The wind of Shyish

(I'll explain in more detail when I have more time)

[hydrosqueegee]

MortiS-the-Lost wrote

You can find the basic outline of my Fate rules Here

The 8 Lores of Magic in Warhammer are:

Fire (Bright) - The wind of Aqshy
Metal (Gold) - The wind of Chamon
Shadow (Grey) - The wind of Ulgu
Beasts (Amber) - The wind of Ghur
Heavens (Celestial) - The wind of Azyr
Light (Light) - The wind of Hysh
Life (Jade) - The wind of Ghyran
Death (Amethyst) - The wind of Shyish

(I'll explain in more detail when I have more time)

details man details!  I've been waiting months and you've forced me to register!

[Swiftblade]

Just started replaying it again, and I found the opposite, the wizard is massively over powered.

He can kill anything with 1 body at any range with no LOS with 5/6 chance. With LOS he can kill anything with 1 body with a 35/36 chance (assuming he has fire spells).

Even without spells, the staff gives him 2 attack, the rest of the spells combined make him almost unkillable imho.

[MortiS-the-Lost]

Swiftblade wrote

He can kill anything with 1 body at any range with no LOS with 5/6 chance. With LOS he can kill anything with 1 body with a 35/36 chance (assuming he has fire spells).

Yes but in the original game the Wizard can only cast Fire of Wrath and Ball of Flame (and any other spells for that matter) once per a game - if he rolls badly or in the case of Ball of Flame if the target rolls slightly better than average - the spell is wasted. Compare this to the amount of damage the other Heroes can do each and every turn!
Yes most of the spells are powerful, but they are all one use only which diminishes any advantage they give quite considerably. Over all unless your playing a very short quest with very few monsters (and stack that with the broken UK version in which all the monsters had 1 Body Point) the Wizard runs out of offensive spells and becomes useless before the end of the adventure

Swiftblade wrote

Even without spells, the staff gives him 2 attack, the rest of the spells combined make him almost unkillable imho.

yes his mediocre Attack of 2 means he can toe-to-toe with the smaller monsters and if he rolls average and the opponent doesn't he can kill them
However 4 body points means a 2-3 good hits from most monsters will kill him pretty quickly and his inability to wear armour means he's stuck with Defend 2 in later Quests and things like Chaos Warriors, Ogres and 'the boss monsters' from the expansions will kill him in 1 hit if he's unlucky with his Defend roll (if you only ever play 1-off games you might not have this problem though) - the solution is of course as any Roleplayer worth the paper his character is written on will know is to keep the Wizard out of close-combat and with such a limited supply of spells as in the original game this means the wizard will spend many a turn doing nothing while the rest of the party deal with the monsters - of course healing the party up after fights is a useful thing to do, but there are only 2 healing spells and both will only heal 1 Hero - once the party have accumulated a few healing potions the wizard is almost obsolete

[MortiS-the-Lost]

hydrosqueegee wrote

details man details!  I've been waiting months and you've forced me to register!

Ha! well we got new member out of that then!

Seriously though welcome aboard  it's good to have the wandering monsters join up!

The '8 Lores' based spell lists aren't quite finished yet, but since you've requested I'll post the bits that are finished soon

[Swiftblade]

Like I say, only just started playing again after about a 20 year break, but seems easy enough to me to keep him mostly out of harms way. Stone skin helps keep him safe, and those odds are still good of 2 instant kills since I don't think anything has more than 1 body.

[hydrosqueegee]

may as well put my 2 cents in on the wizard since I'm here...
I don't think he's completely useless, just mostly.  I think he's a great utility character in context of the original quests.  the first thing I usually buy is a staff to make him more useful.  the diagional attack let's him be up front plinking at weaker monsters, he does fall short on anything tougher than an orc.  but the spells used strategically can make or break a battle that's close.
I have played with a house rule where the whiz can use the short sword.  helpfull, but limited.
the whiz is why I'm here.  I want a better system for his spells.  I like the advanced heroquest way of spellcasting, but not that big of a fan of spells.  I'm interested in the mortis system since it seems it will blend with the warhammer world well.  currently I'm toying with the ultima online spell and reagent type system or modifying the arcanum colleges of spells to work with the game without making them overpowered and simple.  simple is the key of this game.  and since my 6 year old has found some interest in the game, I have to keep it simple.

[MortiS-the-Lost]

Swiftblade wrote

I don't think anything has more than 1 body.

I think we've covered this another thread at some point (you'll have to search sorry), but the UK version gave all the monsters 1 Body Point each - this was a decision on the part of MB to make the game easier (in many players opinion far too easy) which had the added side effect of unbalancing the later quests vastly in the favour of the Heroes - if HeroQuest ever feels incomplete while you play it, it's because it is MB stripped a lot out of the game before it came to publishing it

the US version however includes the correct number of body points for each creature and I recommend finding a download of the US monster chart if you don't have one already

[hydrosqueegee]

the us version is the proper version.  had my copy since christmas '90.  :D

[guzzi]

There are lots of different spell sets for the HQ wizard over on Ye Olde Inn HQ forum. I found the simplest way is to allow the wizard to buy more of the standard spells with his gold, between games. Set a sensible fee for each spell, agreed with your players, and go from there. Also he needs a little more in defence. I found him a Masonic Bracegirdle on the web, gives him two extra in defence.

Bracegirdle.doc

[hydrosqueegee]

in the vein of keeping it simple I've been pondering this afternoon about adding a couple items.
a robe that gives 1 defense and a hat that provides no defense but allows the wizard or elf even to spend 1 mind point to retain a spell after its cast.  add in a potion you can buy to restore 1 or 1d6 mind points for a couple hundred gold and I think it would be a fine addition for little cost over the wizards life without making him too powerful unless he wants to spend a fortune.  mind points would of course be returned to max between quests and it give an almost useless stat some meaning.

[The Duke]

One of my friends owns this game and some of us have gotten together a couple times over the years to play it, but I don't think we've ever actually completed it. Unfortunately, we're all in college now, so we don't get together that often any more, but on the plus side we're planning to get together over winter break and try to play the game all the way through.

We have often commented on how the wizard's spells generally seem lackluster, excepting the fire spells. As a whole, though, it seems like he either uses the useful spells in adventuring and then is of little assistance during the boss battle, or vice versa. After perusing the  internet in an attempt to find better spells to make for the wizard, this, instead, is what seems to be a good fix for the wizard, at least in theory. It's kind of a mash up of a bunch of different ideas that I've seen, but it seems like it would help without making him way overpowered. I won't be able to try it out for around a month or so, but I'm totally open to any feedback if someone wants to try it, or just what you all think. So here it is:

1) Implement a hidden spell recharge point on the map.
-This would be chosen by the GM before each quest and could even be one of the tables or something already in the rooms.
-This recharge point would recharge all used spells one time only. Once you find it you can use it then or later, but once you use it to recharge then its done.
-By at most using each spell twice, this still causes some strategy in choosing when to use the spells, and discourages wasting spells until you have actually found the point
 
2) Add a "magical staff" item that allows the wizard to do his basic attack(one dice roll) to any monster in his line of sight.
-He would have to buy this item, helping him buy new items like all of the other characters in the game and get better as you progress through the quests
-This doesn't seem to affect his dynamic of being a stand-in-the-back, try-not-to-get-hit type character.
-It would allow him to use his heal spells on the physical characters who should be taking the beating anyways
- This would give him some use in the exploration phase when you're just trying to find and search-for-treasure in all the rooms, by helping to kill some of the smaller creatures, without turning him into some crazy powerful character who outshines all the other characters
-It's not powerful enough to make his spells worthless

These two changes don't seem like they would be particularly hard to implement, but they also seem, to me, like they would really help to bring the wizard up to the level of the other characters. I tried to include some reasoning behind why I thought these would be good, but PLEASE give me some feedback on this. Sorry this is gettin g a bit lengthy, but thanks for sticking with me all the way through!

[LostamongtheBarrens]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.