Citadel £ine Ca$t - what you really need to know!

[messyart]

Oh, you're so cynical.
Come on, we all know they're good guys at heart.. Don't we?

[BobbieTheDamned]

I was tempted to post this up but I didn't want to deprive you of first rant rights.

I agree the models look almost completely identical to the metal versions. Possibly very very slightly cleaner, but I think that's just because they're flat grey and that photographs better than shiny metal. I can't see them looking any better than the metal versions even under close scrutiny. The only slight advantage I can see is that resin miniatures are much easier to hack up to convert, but at that price its not really a sensible thing to be doing.

So if you like easily broken models and want to pay far far more than they are worth then I recommend a full frontal lobotomy ... and while your waiting for the treatment you can kill some time by buying some Citadel £ine Ca$t miniatures.    

Says it all really.

[MortiS-the-Lost]

A FaceBook page has been created to register your disgust at this blatant mindless unjustified profit-mongering  

Citadel £ine Ca$t is a rip-off

[Apocalypsedreamer]

Today the latest edition of white dwarf was released and guess what...... the first 16 pages are completely devoted to showing us models we have seen for years and years in a crappy delicate resin plastic hybrid.  On the first page they compare the release of Citadel £ine Ca$t to the first Moon landing and the coming of the Fourth age of middle earth  and follow that by saying that they are at the fore front of the hobby revolution.  I tell you the hobby revolution will be when Gw go bust (soon please).  I have now given my 40k to Steve at Triple Helix to sell,  I've had the last straw with this company.

LETS BOYCOT THEM PROPER

'Rant over'


Thank you

A.D

[MortiS-the-Lost]

also you may have spotted a few miscasts in the pictures above and here is (apparently) what they look like strait out of the packet


the best miniatures the world has ever seen? I think not!

[General Biakal]

see, funny story on this... i was at the lenton store on saturday for the launch, and all the staff were dressed in costume. and the VERY cute girl who works at the store was dressed as an wood elf waywatcher. i asked her out and she said she would have a drink with me in bugmans after the store closed.

she never turned up.

so FUCK finecast and FUCK GW.

[Metropolis]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

[General Biakal]

and you wouldn't???????????????????

[Marchomer]

I heard that apparently the problem of the missing parts and the bubbles is due to the low density of the resin and the strong pressure which the material is put into the molds...
Once again, congratulations to GW not only for the poor quality of the material, the overcharge and the uselessness of this resin, but also for the incompetence.

Obviously there are only three possibilities:
0.The machines have not been tested enough;
1.The GW doesn't care about the final result of the miniatures;
10.Both hypotheses;

General Biakal wrote

see, funny story on this... i was at the lenton store on saturday for the launch, and all the staff were dressed in costume. and the VERY cute girl who works at the store was dressed as an wood elf waywatcher. i asked her out and she said she would have a drink with me in bugmans after the store closed.

she never turned up.

so FUCK finecast and FUCK GW.

 Good point!

[MarkRG]

I went into Gw today as im back in the UK. I looked at the fine cast and sure enough they are crap.
The molds don't go together that well so you need alot of green stuff to fill in the gaps.
I have tended to like GW stuff even when mort goes on his rants, but this time he is right.

THEY ARE ALL SHITE.

As i have always said if you don't like it then don't buy it.

Game on everyone Mark

[Talsin]

And now for another opinion..................

WOW.

Anger leads to hate, hate leads to fear, fear leads to suffering- Yoda

Just a few things I thought i would share, trying to be the voice of reason and all...

The finecast release seams to be a bit mis-timed, as GW ALWAYS have a June price increase.
This increase is not just on items that were metal but are now finecast, but on books, plastics etc, so the price increase may not have ANYTHING TO DO with finecast, but could just be GW sticking their foot in it with a really bad timing decision.

Secondly, i am looking to the future. My Dark Eldar Heamoncumlus coven will be finecast. There are not plastics for these at the moment, and the old metal dark eldar figures dont look to good compared to the new range. So i have a choice of finecast or spend more money converting them up.

Third, have any of you held a finecast mini or painted one? the one in the pic mort showed i have seen on a forum with a statement which in essence read, "dont ask how i got this, cos i didnt get it through the proper channels", and remember finecast is in its early stages, so there may be a few quality issues. that review also had many positive things to say as well. However if GW want this to sell they will need to deal with these, and sort them out for their customers. Metal has flaws, i remember buying an Azezal mini, and one of the wings was completely miscast at the joint, so i could not assemble it.

If anyone has assembled and painted some finecast themselves please give us your views.

Fourthly, A lot of people say they cant see any difference in metal or finecast. I have looked at one in the new blister and it looks a bit clearer, but i will wait until i have my heamonculus coven before making that judgement. However, what did you expect, that they would develop new molding tech AND resculpt a massive amount of the metal range AT THE SAME TIME?

They could have done this, but would not have released anything for at a long time while the sculptors were redoing the metal range. Focusing on one massive project nearly killed Heresy miniatures. Imagine if there were no releases from GW for a year? What would happen? Or if they had to remove each of these metal items from the shelves over a long period while they were redone? and then had to be redone when a new army book came out?

GW are likely in my opinion redo sculpts when they redo an army book or codex. You cant have your cake and eat it. By using the sculpts they have they can make the release of finecast a BIG thing, rather than release a few minis a month, which wont be a splash but a dribble.

Anyway to conclude, how can you make a judgement without the evidence? Innocent until proven guilty, dont judge a book by its cover.

As i said, from what i have seen the finecast looks good, but until i have held, assembled and painted finecast, i will make no decision about it.

And now you can all carry on with the petty hatred, voice of balance over and out.

[Talsin]

oh and general bikial, HELL NO to the waywatcher woman.

T

[MortiS-the-Lost]

Nice, but Dark Elves are more fun

[MortiS-the-Lost]

"Bad models lead to drops in sales, drops in sales leads to drops in profit, drops in profit leads to prices rises and cost cutting in production, prices rises and cost cutting in production leads to bad models"

Sorry but finecast really are a bad as we've been saying

Since making these initial pre-event post I have seen and handled Fine Cast miniatures, a good 60% hand mis-cast part and 90% of all the fine cast I've seen has had bubbles in it

Discussions with people who work with resin for other companies have confirmed that GW are rushing production, using moulds long after their decent working life span (or using very cheap moulding material which is wearing out too quickly) and there seems to be absolutely no quality control (even promotional pictures in WD and on their own website have defects)

Finecast is nothing special, the techniques being used are nothing new and the models aren't worth the prices even without the defects


 ^ call me bubbles darling ...

also they've been melting in the sun ...

http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.com/2011/06/dont-leave-finecast-in-sun.html

[Marchomer]

Talsin wrote

remember finecast is in its early stages, so there may be a few quality issues

I disagree, because these issues are too evident, we're talking about missing parts, not some little flaw that you can file or fix with green stuff. Every paper money that is what it's worth and the money of the customers don't have missing parts or printing errors.

[Marchomer]

MarkRG wrote

As i have always said if you don't like it then don't buy it.

Totally agree!

[BobbieTheDamned]

Talsin wrote

The finecast release seams to be a bit mis-timed, as GW ALWAYS have a June price increase.

Yup, and the fact that has become acceptable is staggering. No other miniatures company has a yearly price rise like that.

Talsin wrote

This increase is not just on items that were metal but are now finecast, but on books, plastics etc, so the price increase may not have ANYTHING TO DO with finecast, but could just be GW sticking their foot in it with a really bad timing decision.

Yes releasing a new line just after the yearly price line is a massive goof. As was forcing all the independent retailers to stop selling abroad in the same month. Its obvious that internal communication at GW is getting worse and worse.

Talsin wrote

Secondly, i am looking to the future. My Dark Eldar Heamoncumlus coven will be finecast. There are not plastics for these at the moment, and the old metal dark eldar figures dont look to good compared to the new range. So i have a choice of finecast or spend more money converting them up.

Having just looked at the Haemonculus model I'm supprised that you're willing to fork out £10 a time for it. Not that its a bad sculpt its just not worth £10. £5, maybe £6, is what that model is worth at most in my opinion. It'd be a pretty easy conversion from a standard warrior torso with any four arms you care for (which I'd guess you'd have rather a lot of spare from the warriors and/or wyches). Sculpt a coat and some legs/robes and you're pretty much done. Even having to buy these parts from one of the bits websites it'll be a lot cheaper.

Talsin wrote

Third, have any of you held a finecast mini or painted one? the one in the pic mort showed i have seen on a forum with a statement which in essence read, "dont ask how i got this, cos i didnt get it through the proper channels", and remember finecast is in its early stages, so there may be a few quality issues. that review also had many positive things to say as well. However if GW want this to sell they will need to deal with these, and sort them out for their customers. Metal has flaws, i remember buying an Azezal mini, and one of the wings was completely miscast at the joint, so i could not assemble it.

Yes its a new product, but GW have plenty of experiance with quality control, that doesn't change no matter what the material is. They shouldn't be selling a defective product period. Of course you're going to get a the odd miscast, hell I've had plastics from GW that were incorrectly moulded, but it seems like they've been very lax with checking these new releases are actually up to scratch.

GW had all the time in the world to get this release right, and instead they've rushed it.

Talsin wrote

Fourthly, A lot of people say they cant see any difference in metal or finecast. I have looked at one in the new blister and it looks a bit clearer, but i will wait until i have my heamonculus coven before making that judgement. However, what did you expect, that they would develop new molding tech AND resculpt a massive amount of the metal range AT THE SAME TIME?

GW do some of the best cast metal figures in the world. Resin would allow them to do something a little more detailed if they re-mastered the models, but that's rather pointless. I highly doubt anyone but the very best painters will get even a tiny advantage from the resin figures. Personally I feel that people think the new figures look sharper because they're grey and that gives much better contrast than bare metal figures do.

GW have got a 100% market share of their games, there's no rush to get new products out other than their own greed. From my own experience with resin casting and what I've gleaned from other manufactures is that the main advantage of resin over metal is the ability to get more detail on the 'sides' of the model and to do deeper undercuts. Both advantages are completely lost with the GW models as they're exactly the same sculpts as they've been using beforehand. They'd have been better off releasing this new material with brand new models rather than re-releasing stuff that's already available.

Talsin wrote

They could have done this, but would not have released anything for at a long time while the sculptors were redoing the metal range. Focusing on one massive project nearly killed Heresy miniatures. Imagine if there were no releases from GW for a year? What would happen?

Yes doing the dragon really has hampered Heresy. But that's because Heresy has one sculptor, who also does a lot of other work for the company. GW has a team of sculptors that are very well supported and don't have anything else to do but sculpt. If they'd simply used the new material for the new lines being released wouldn't have reduced their output at all.

Talsin wrote

and then had to be redone when a new army book came out?

And why exactly do miniatures need to be re-done each time a new army book is released? I have models that I bought nearly 15 years ago that are still just as usable with the rules I bought them for and now can be used for lots of other new games too. Think how interesting and diverse GW could have made their games if they'd spent all that effort they've put into re-hashing the same few sprues of space marines (and not really changing the overall quality or look of the miniatures) into creating new things?

Talsin wrote

Anyway to conclude, how can you make a judgement without the evidence? Innocent until proven guilty, dont judge a book by its cover.

The evidence of mis-casts is prevalent in GWs own advertisements for the models. If they can't find a pretty one to photograph then what's the chance of getting a good cast in a blister? GW are trying to sell a product here, they have to prove that its worth my while even looking at it, and they're doing a bad job.

Talsin wrote

And now you can all carry on with the petty hatred, voice of balance over and out.

Ballance? Hardly! GW is part of the hobby, its not the entire hobby.

I was wargaming long before I found GW and will be long after they're gone. I'm not hating on them, I just think its a tragedy that all the great artists (sculptors, writers and painters) that have poured hours of work into a GW are having their work slowly destroyed for the sake of money. I remember a GW that was friendly and listened to its customers. I remember being able to walk into a GW store and have the staff talk to me like I'm a human being, rather than being hassled to buy the newest releases.

[MarkRG]

I am not anti GW but lets face it, the quality is getting pourer and the price is OTT for what you get.
However the books are getting better, which is what I mainy buy these days.

With mort and this forum I have been buying models from the other companies that i would have never even heard off. This is because of the lack of advertising.
Unless your a deadicated gamer, you would never really find them.

When you go to a standard model shop, what do you see.
Most shops would have a shelf at least selling GW stuff. (Which they will soon bugger up.)
Where is the other companies stuff, if you don't see it, how can they expect to buy it.
Most model shops don't have gaming tables, so where do you game, unless you can go to a mates house, shed, garage your pretty screwed.( GW have the advantage on this one.)
Not all of us are luckly to have a quality gaming warehouse nearby.

I'm just wondering if the smaller model making companies can join forces and start their own shops up with gaming tables. If this can be done then GW would be in trouble.

My words may have been abit harsh on saying they were shite, but you would need tobe a half good sculpturer to fill in the gaps. I now we all want our own unique models but from what i saw today, (made by GW staff member) It will take alot of effert just to make it look good.

I am hoping that these are just some teething troubles and they get there act together.

But at the end of the day,  If you don't like it, then don't buy it.

[MortiS-the-Lost]

++ADMIN MODE++
Before this discussion goes on any further I'd like to remind everyone here to keep it civilised - there has never been a flame war on tLatD and I'm sure we'd all like to keep it that way  

[messyart]

Might I suggest a food fight?