Chaos Space Marine backpacks

[MortiS-the-Lost]

Here's something I've always wondered: why do the vents on Chaos Spacemarine backpacks stick out on those arm things?

I've read about the history of Spacemarine Power-armour - Thunder Armour, Iron Armour, Pre-heresy, Heresy and all that and even where Terminators fit into it all, but I've never found any reference to why the chaos back packs look like they do.
Is it some modification they all made in defiance of the emperor's design? do the vent stalks grow when touched by chaos?

I guess model wise it's to make the Chaos Marines stand out from a distance, but is there a background reason? and if not - why not?

discuss ...

[messyart]

I can imagine that they'd want to look more imposing.


But ultimately we're stuck with the simple "Games Workshop says it's so".

But yes, just like how they made many, many strange customisations to their armour (Go look up John Blanches chaos colours illustration to get a few ideas) I can see them doing this.. Granted, the scale on which they've done it seems odd, considering they would all have come from the basic pre-heresy-style backpacks [with the funny ear-like vents..].

It seems a silly way to update the older chaos packs, too. The cool ones you get with Berzerkers nowadays.
Almost as if some supreme overlord came along and said that they all have to change their packs the same way..

[MortiS-the-Lost]

messyart wrote

But yes, just like how they made many, many strange customisations to their armour (Go look up John Blanches chaos colours illustration to get a few ideas) I can see them doing this.. Granted, the scale on which they've done it seems odd, considering they would all have come from the basic pre-heresy-style backpacks [with the funny ear-like vents..].

yea, fully understand the whims of chaos would make you alter armour in all kinds of strange ways (I love the John Blache Chaos Space Marines Conversion illustration from the Codex and have tried a few of them out over the years). Adding spikes, Runes, decorative trim, skulls, weird organic details etc.  But the extending back pack vents is a very specific thing for all the Traitors to have had happen/done to their back packs, especially considering how varied Chaos Spacemarine amour is. Having some of the Chaos Marines with this sort of thing I can understand, but all of them?  

messyart wrote

Almost as if some supreme overlord came along and said that they all have to change their packs the same way..

-"I am Horus lord of Chaos and I want you all to extend the upper vents on your back packs in some way or another so they stick out past your shoulders"
-"but  won't that make it difficult to get though doors - you know if we're on a ship or space hulk or something?
-"You dare to defy the Lord of Chaos?!"
-"no but, I'm just saying it will make it difficult to get through doors ... er ... my Lord"
-"HAVE THAT MARINE EXECUTED!!"

[messyart]

I guess design-wise, it was simply to make them much, much more imposing when stood beside their Loyal BATTLE BROTHARS, the SPEHHSS MAREENS



...Metal BAWKSES..

[MortiS-the-Lost]

messyart wrote

I guess design-wise, it was simply to make them much, much more imposing when stood beside their Loyal BATTLE BROTHARS, the SPEHHSS MAREENS

Yea from a purely visual design point of view it makes perfect sense as it gives Chaosmarines a distinct silhouette



but the difference seems to have been entirely over-looked when it comes to background, I can't find a mention of it anywhere - it just strikes me as being really odd

[BobbieTheDamned]

I believe the reason stated in more recent Horus Heresy background is that the CSM stacked extra power cells into their backpacks, which wasn't a practice any loyalist chapter took up as it was too dangerous. The extra power cells meant there was less space for what was originally in there so they added the 'wings' to accommodate this extra equipment.

I do agree its a rather odd detail that hasn't really been mentioned very often.

[Billiam Babble]

Like Rob says, my understanding was that it was just part of standard pre-heresy crusader armour, like the mark4 helmets (?) - Now thousands of years old, it has a sort of archaic steam-punk appearance to citizens of Imperium.  I like the idea of the power cells and jets needing to be a distance apart.  

Edit: I'm reading between the lines here, interpreting via the main WH40K book I'm familiar with, which is the Chaos Codex for 2nd edition rules (when cultists were still allowed to fraternised with Beastmen and the Eye of Terror made everything possible ... Death to the False Emperor!).

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[Conorius]

MortiS-the-Lost i have the Answer for you!

I know you know Roge Trader, than you know sure that are jets on both sides.
In new publications (in german) is told thart the Oxygen arrester  and/or  Termal arresters
This is bullshit.
We can see here:

And here we seen is was posible to update the jets from backpack to a "Flight Pack"

In german is the Flight Pack called "Sprung Modul" (thats badly soudns like Jump Pack)
The old Flight Pack have 3 Jets on both sides and 1 Antigraph engline.
In the newes Version is only one open hole to seen but this have to conzentrate the Radiance.
But inside the 3 Jets exsist too.

The Imperial Space Marine can fly 4 Zoll.
By Chaos we mut look now to the old Chaos Backpacks:

This Backpack have 4 Jets.
the big Jet made +2 Zoll Move and the little Jets +1 Move
Wathc the picture we have 2 big and down 2 little jets.
2 +2 = 4 +1 = 5 +1 = 6 Zoll

Flyghtpack:
2+2+2 +2+2+2 = 12 Zoll
2nd ED. 40k = 12 vertical  (18 horizontal also gives the Atigraph Engine a bonus of +6)

The Chaos Back Pack with 2 Jets of each Side ( = 4 jets) are called "Jump Pack"


In the End of Grat Crusade the Legion Exmperimental with Jump and Flight packs.
The New Chaos Jump Packs are different the power from the little Jet go now into the Great one!
(you can see by your pictrue from Oct 08, 2011; 5:49pm)

...a pipe gos to the upper "Jet arm" and by the Impeial new Version you see the connection.

[Conorius]

RoberThDammned is right!
Some new Quell is told in the "Jet Arm" the Chaos Marines set "Power Cells".

The Chaos Guys wanted more Flys and the Raptors are the Goal of this Experiments.

Here you Guys see Ultramarines fly with normal Back Pack:

[Conorius]

..and one picture more:

[Conorius]

(where i can Eedit a Post ?)

here more pictures:


 - the Ultramrines with normal Back-Pack by landing
 

- the MK6 Armour show jet on side!

[Conorius]

On this picture from the Rogue Trader Box 01 (RTB01) " Imperial Space Marines ",
we can find the Back Pack called "Jet Pack"

This is both, Back Pack and Jet Pack.
Every Banner and another equipment have place in the back pack + all the things like Reaktor, Ari Tanks and all this we can see in the RT Rule Book Picture from Page 115

[MortiS-the-Lost]

Yes the 'vent' on the back-packs were originally supposed to be for manoeuvring around in space and as you pointed out the older Chaos back-packs had 4 vents/nozzles - but this still doesn't explain why the Chaos ones are different even from the pre-heresy back-packs seen on the Mark 2 'Crusade Armour', Mark 3 'Iron Armour' and the Mark 4 'Maximus Suit' - all have the same 'short nozzled' back-packs

[Conorius]

OK, this with the Jets is now clear! *happy*
We know the Back Module is Back Pack with Banner in side and suport sings like Extra Air Tanks and Fusion System.

Next Point is: "the Space Marine Armour is still function without Back Module!"
It gives Miniatures with Heavy weapons who have no Connection for this on back!

The Back Module is for Space and for climbing buildings fast.
In the end of Great Crusade and Start of Horus Herasy the Legions Start to build new Armours.
MK7, MK6 and MK5 was made in same Time at "Brother War".

MKI ( was not for Space Marines ) have badly construcktion.
MKII & MKIII have the Same Back Module but the Landing Jet were too stiff and hard to move!

The "Jet Arm" was first posible with the MK4 Maximus Armour!
The MKIII Back Module ( for the MK4 Armour ) have as first Back Module round Jets.

The "Jet Arm" have a forced ventilation for the compressor power cell, and the power cell is for the Big Jet!
The Top Jet must mor far from the Jet under them! ( or the top jet destroy the under jet )

For the upper Jet was more power need also was the power cells need.

The Imperial Marines (Legions) have abandoned this design and developed the flight pack system we know today.


The first Flight Pack was for MKIV Armur.
Same way the Storm Bird jet is funktion.

air came on top in side and fire burst cam back-down out.
The Air is use to cool down the System and not so many energie from the nuclear reactor is need.
(the alternativ to the Chaos Flight Pack )
 
The normal Flight Pack juse 3 Jets + air System and Anti Graph Engine to hold in air.

The newes Module have only on open Hole to concentrade the fire Burst for better come forward:

(Here to seen with the old one Side by Side)


By the 2 modern Back Packs goes the Temral and Air output back in to the Module and help to perfor the up lift.

The Termal drainage prevents the bottom left and right heat buildup.
The Air drainage emission cools the termal system.
Both  can be used to lift!

[Conorius]

[Billiam Babble]

Conorius wrote

The first Flight Pack was for MKIV Armur.
Same way the Storm Bird jet is funktion.

Hot dang!  I love Crusader Armour!

[Vamper]

Having the jets further apart will give better maneuverability in flight/space. Also looks more menacing IMO.

[hel tanner]

Hi guys thought I'd give you the forgeworlds take on this question (taken from their Horus Heresy book).

The "winged" pattern  backpack was called the angelus pattern and was indeed used for space/low grav style ops due to better jets and stabilizers, however the units more powerful core led to weaker rad shielding (that could down a marine from prolonged exposure).

Due to the issues with the pack they were stock piled (in quite large numbers by some) by the legions but only issued on a mission by mission basis.

Once the Heresy kicked off the traitors started using it all the time due to a lack of other units being available, while loyalists basically grabbed other patterns where they could, the mindsets of both parties would have played a part in my mind as well with the loyalists unwilling to risk thier troops and the traitors not giving a damn.

so thats the forgeworld take on things with a bit of my thoughts thrown in.