Re: Dungeons and Dragons Adventure System Board Games [review/ramble]
Posted by MortiS-the-Lost on Nov 11, 2011; 4:24pm
URL: http://the-lost-and-the-damned.71.s1.nabble.com/Dungeons-and-Dragons-Adventure-System-Board-Games-review-ramble-tp6985031p6985906.html
Excellent write up of the series so far
I myself own CaStLe RaVenLoFt - which Madam M got me for X-mas last year. My group play it from time to as a kind of 'lazy'/'spur of the moment' game because it requires no preparation, you can just open up the box get the parts out and play.
In so far as the dungeon goes it reminds of WHQ with it's random generation method and also rather strongly of Twilight Creations's Zombies! boardgame. The combat mechanics are of course the same stripped down D20 system seen in the Star Wars Miniatures game and the system for placing monsters is slightly reminiscent of the Blips in SpaceHulk.
Although the D&D 4th style 'Healing Surge' and lack of any real role-play is rather irritating the number one thing that bothers me above all else is the way the monsters move - and it's not so much the IF THEN program-like behaviour-instructions each monster type follows (despite it's restrictive nature this is very useful for solo-play and at least makes each monster's behaviour different) as the fact they have no movement rate and just move 1 tile (4x4 square board section) at a time until they end up in range of (or in an adjacent square to) the nearest PC so they can use their attack (the PCs however do have a traditional square-based movement rate). This takes away a lot of the strategy of dungeon crawling as there are no real slow or fast monsters and it also begs the question of why the board is grid based at all. I mean why not just have 1 square per tile like DungeonQuest? And then have the PCs move 1 or 2 tiles a turn like the monsters? After all if you're on the same tile as a monster you're usually in combat with it in one way or another.
The extremely abstract nature of some of the rules, especially some of the PC's abilities also I feel strips away further levels of strategy that you have in other dungeon crawler type games.
Having criticized it this much so far I must also explain that CaStLe RaVenLoFt still a fun and fast playing game – it's also very easy to learn and several quests can be played end-to-end in the time it takes to a play single quest of most other dungeon crawlers.
CaStLe RaVenLoFt's no GM game-play (hehe that always reminds me of those 'GM free food' sticker you used to see on meat packets a few years ago) makes most veteran players of dungeon crawlers a little uneasy, but most seem to forget that WHQ was designed to be played without a GM and having a GM running the game was considered part of the 'advanced rules' and consigned to the Role-Play Book.
My group tends to play CaStLe RaVenLoFt with one person acting as the GM, this actually requires far less rule changes than you might think – all you need to do is read 'Controlling Player' as GM and 'Active Player' as 'PC who's turn it is' and ad-lib anything unusual that turns up. We also PCs to move and attack in which ever order they like in the same way as HeroQuest, D&D and many other games do. I think the next logical step will be to sit down with a 3.5 or 4th edition Monster Manual and make a reference sheet for the different monster's movement rates.
CaStLe RaVenLoFt of course makes for a great introductory game to D&D – earlier in this year I used it to introduce a group of young wargamers to D&D, after a few weeks of playing during which they worked their way though the campaign in the booklet, I brought along my D&D 3.5 box set and we played the adventure that came with it. Needless to say they were much less intimidated by a full RPG system buy that point and it only took a little guidance to get them role-playing their characters.
In the future I will be seeing about getting Wrath of Ashardalon or The Legend of Drizzt (or maybe both) to expand the game and I will most likely mix and match monsters and floor-pieces between the games.
Lastly it goes without saying the miniatures in the CaStLe RaVenLoFt game are rather nice (despite being made of that stupid rubbery plastic WotC insist on using) and once painted up find use in many other games. Like wise the modular nature and in-built randomization mechanic of the dungeon tiles makes them very easy to use in other games you want to do a bit of random dungeon crawling in.
PS I may add pictures to my contribution to this ranting at a later date
URL: http://the-lost-and-the-damned.71.s1.nabble.com/Dungeons-and-Dragons-Adventure-System-Board-Games-review-ramble-tp6985031p6985906.html
Excellent write up of the series so far
I myself own CaStLe RaVenLoFt - which Madam M got me for X-mas last year. My group play it from time to as a kind of 'lazy'/'spur of the moment' game because it requires no preparation, you can just open up the box get the parts out and play.
In so far as the dungeon goes it reminds of WHQ with it's random generation method and also rather strongly of Twilight Creations's Zombies! boardgame. The combat mechanics are of course the same stripped down D20 system seen in the Star Wars Miniatures game and the system for placing monsters is slightly reminiscent of the Blips in SpaceHulk.
Although the D&D 4th style 'Healing Surge' and lack of any real role-play is rather irritating the number one thing that bothers me above all else is the way the monsters move - and it's not so much the IF THEN program-like behaviour-instructions each monster type follows (despite it's restrictive nature this is very useful for solo-play and at least makes each monster's behaviour different) as the fact they have no movement rate and just move 1 tile (4x4 square board section) at a time until they end up in range of (or in an adjacent square to) the nearest PC so they can use their attack (the PCs however do have a traditional square-based movement rate). This takes away a lot of the strategy of dungeon crawling as there are no real slow or fast monsters and it also begs the question of why the board is grid based at all. I mean why not just have 1 square per tile like DungeonQuest? And then have the PCs move 1 or 2 tiles a turn like the monsters? After all if you're on the same tile as a monster you're usually in combat with it in one way or another.
The extremely abstract nature of some of the rules, especially some of the PC's abilities also I feel strips away further levels of strategy that you have in other dungeon crawler type games.
Having criticized it this much so far I must also explain that CaStLe RaVenLoFt still a fun and fast playing game – it's also very easy to learn and several quests can be played end-to-end in the time it takes to a play single quest of most other dungeon crawlers.
CaStLe RaVenLoFt's no GM game-play (hehe that always reminds me of those 'GM free food' sticker you used to see on meat packets a few years ago) makes most veteran players of dungeon crawlers a little uneasy, but most seem to forget that WHQ was designed to be played without a GM and having a GM running the game was considered part of the 'advanced rules' and consigned to the Role-Play Book.
My group tends to play CaStLe RaVenLoFt with one person acting as the GM, this actually requires far less rule changes than you might think – all you need to do is read 'Controlling Player' as GM and 'Active Player' as 'PC who's turn it is' and ad-lib anything unusual that turns up. We also PCs to move and attack in which ever order they like in the same way as HeroQuest, D&D and many other games do. I think the next logical step will be to sit down with a 3.5 or 4th edition Monster Manual and make a reference sheet for the different monster's movement rates.
CaStLe RaVenLoFt of course makes for a great introductory game to D&D – earlier in this year I used it to introduce a group of young wargamers to D&D, after a few weeks of playing during which they worked their way though the campaign in the booklet, I brought along my D&D 3.5 box set and we played the adventure that came with it. Needless to say they were much less intimidated by a full RPG system buy that point and it only took a little guidance to get them role-playing their characters.
In the future I will be seeing about getting Wrath of Ashardalon or The Legend of Drizzt (or maybe both) to expand the game and I will most likely mix and match monsters and floor-pieces between the games.
Lastly it goes without saying the miniatures in the CaStLe RaVenLoFt game are rather nice (despite being made of that stupid rubbery plastic WotC insist on using) and once painted up find use in many other games. Like wise the modular nature and in-built randomization mechanic of the dungeon tiles makes them very easy to use in other games you want to do a bit of random dungeon crawling in.
PS I may add pictures to my contribution to this ranting at a later date
-----------------------------------
~The ravings of a single mad Goblin is bad enough, but such a power-hungry, malice-filled creature as Mortis can never hope to be understood~
~The ravings of a single mad Goblin is bad enough, but such a power-hungry, malice-filled creature as Mortis can never hope to be understood~
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