Posted by
MortiS-the-Lost on
Nov 04, 2010; 6:48pm
URL: http://the-lost-and-the-damned.71.s1.nabble.com/Deadly-Fast-Play-Rules-in-Fighting-Fantasy-tp5703538p5706488.html

Ah yes some excellent rules ideas in there!
Prepare for lengthily game mechanic discussions!
Billiam Babble wrote
Normally, in combat the opponent with the highest attack strength (Skill + 2 dice) deals 2 points of damage to the loser’s Stamina. In fast play you treat the difference between the two Attack Strengths as damage. An Attack Strength of 18 vs. an Attack Strength of 12 will deal 6 points of damage.
Making the difference between the two Attack Strengths the damage certainly speeds up the action and reduces the number of rounds combat lasts, but does of course require more maths. Also it means that monsters are easier to kill, but conversely so are adventurers. In an extremely uneven fight this can mean the weaker combatant not standing much of a chance. This is fine when your heroes are killing Goblins with 1 blow at the dungeon entrance, but may not be looked up on so favourably when a Dragon wipes out a whole party of 4 Adventurers in a single round at the other end of the dungeon. This makes a combat a little too deadly even for my tastes ... (despite it's rather ironic name, Fighting Fantasy encouraged players to avoid combat)
Having double 6 always cause 1 point of damage as you've suggested goes some way to evening this out, but I'd take it a little further.
Double 1 is a Fumble and you automatically lose that round of combat
Double 6 is a Mighty Blow and automatically win that round of combat
in both the Fumble and Mighty Blow situations damage should be worked out on the dice rolls alone without adding either combatant's SKILL to the scores (Weapon and Armour modifiers can be added to damage as per normal though)
Of course if both combatants roll double 1 or double 6 then they will automatically draw neither will take any damage (Stand Off). In the case of 2 Fumbles they have both just swung at thin air and in the case of 2 Mighty Blows their weapons have hit each other, sparks flying off them!
All this mean that not only do the Hero's have a better chance against that dragon in the final fight, but those Goblins become a legitimate threat again.
(Note that Dungeoneer includes rules for Fumbles and Mighty Blows, but a double 6 automatically kills the opponent and a double 1 has much more complicated rules which change the out come of the combat round for the worse for whoever rolled it – the rules I've suggested here work much better with your rules as your rules already have a high chance of killing in 1 blow or at least causing massive amounts of damage)
The further thought occurs that these rules could be extended to incorporate
all doubles in combat making fighting even more deadly and unpredictable (in which case you want to call a Double an 'equaliser' or something to that effect)

Billiam Babble wrote
Luck rolls can double or half the damage, rounding down. One point of damage is always caused by a winning blow.

Ooh Nasty!!
Personally I'd keep the 'Using LUCK in Combat' rules the same, your rules already cause massive amounts of damage on a good roll. Also this doesn't take into account what happens when the looser uses LUCK to try and avoid damage (LUCK is what gives heroes an edge over monsters and regular people in FF, your way you'd give them more chance of getting killed

). Yes the normal 'LUCK in combat' rules have less effect under your house rules, but having the ability to cause so much damage to either side makes it less necessary to use LUCK in combat (your natural luck with the dice, comes more into play – in a way you've got the luck built-in to the combat now) Also half-ing and double-ing is just more maths, which will slow down play IMHO.
Billiam Babble wrote
In some of the gamebooks eating provisions to regain 4 Stamina points is allowed. In gaming terms, these are like health packs, first aid, “binding wounds” etc. In those gamebooks, a variable could be used involving perhaps a d6 gain in Stamina) – I think I tried this and it was okay, but in the back of my mind I wondered if I was trying to turn FF into D&D.
Eating Provisions = Regain 1-6 Stamina points.
again IMHO you've made one of the recovery-from-bad-things mechanics potentially less effective

, lets face it in FF the odds are stacked against the Heroes (especially in Gamebooks by Steve Jackson) and they need as much help as they can get

. If you must add a variable into the only rules in the system that give you a chance of recovering your precious STAMINA make it D4+2 so it's still fairly effective even if you roll badly, I'm aware this breaks the FF tradition of D6's only, but you've got to give the poor adventurer's something ...

Billiam Babble wrote
Alternative weapon damage rules for FF Intro RPG
The Riddling Reaver book introduces variable weapon damage to FF (which appeared in Warlock originally I think, and was later improved upon in Advanced FF/Dungeoneer) The points spread is kept small, with the average damage being 2 Stamina point, which is apt. I find rolling a d6 to finding a number between 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 a little laborious, although looking at the charts recently, fun could be had with making special damage dice, as are often discussed on this forum regarding HeroQuest and Warhammer. [insert link to customised dice threads...] But I digress!
agreed, the less looking things up the better!
The custom dice idea is interesting and would certainly look impressive on the table, I imagine little pictures of the weapon types in question on each side of the dice

Having said that trying to find the Axe Dice, the 2 Handed Mace Dice, the Improvised Weapon Dice or the Sword Dice all the time among the multitude of dice you end up with scattered across the table in the during a game could slow down play (I supposed you could colour code them), not to mention the number of different dice you'd need to sit down and make

(and you'd run out of colours if you plump for the colour coded option)
Billiam Babble wrote
I’d abandon this system for something a little more chaotic and mainstream.
Weapons can have bonuses, a "medium" sword being standard, +1 Large sword, +2 Flaming whip, +3 magic weapon, -1 for small daggers, weaker claws, -2 improvised weapon (chair leg), -3 for hand-to-hand/unarmed/non-martial art
(-3 modifier matches up with the current unarmed -3 Skill modifier which would now be optional as a rule since the player may be being penalised twice)
(If I remember right these sorts of bonuses are in WHFRPG 1st Ed) (?)
DMs may wish to have a greater range of bonuses and negatives for weapons, but with such large variables in damage derived from a difference in Attack Strength I’d recommend keeping the modifiers low. (nothing higher than +3 or +2 for mundane weapons perhaps)
The damage bonus is applied after the Attack Strengths have been compared.
Remember the difference in the Attack Strengths is the actual damage, so the damage bonus is added to that.
yes most games use a modifier system something like this at some point, to differentiate the amounts of damage different weapon cause, although in most cases they don't directly effect the dice results but rather the number of dice rolled (HQ and AHQ) or what score is required to cause damage (WFB). WFRP 1 uses D6 + attacker's Strength + Weapon Modifier - defender's Toughness to work out damage. While WFRP 2 uses D10 + a modifier based and weapon type on the attacker's Strength Bonus - defender's Toughness in a similar way. D&D of course uses different dice for different weapons (well it's a little more complicated but I won't get into it here as most people reading this will have played D&D)
for your FF house rules I'll suggest the following modifiers:
Small Weapons (Dagger, Knife, ect):
-1 Damage Modifier
Hand Weapons (Sword, Axe, Mace, Hammer, Club, ect):
+1 Damage Modifier
Double Handed Weapons (2 Handed Sword, 2 Handed Axe, 2 Handed Mace, 2 Handed Hammer, ect): +2 Damage Modifier
Spears and Polearms+1 Damage Modifier
Staff:
0 Damage Modifier
Whip:0 Damage Modifier
Bow:+1 Damage Modifier
Crossbow:+2 Damage Modifier
Throwing Knife/Stars:0 Damage Modifier
and finally: Magic Weapons double their modifiers for the type they are!
(BTW Flaming Whip? Did you make Balrogs a playable race? Lol)
Billiam Babble wrote
Armour rules for FF Intro RPG (alternative rules for AFF)
To counter weapon damage bonuses, armour defence bonuses can be used. Again these will only be applied after the Attack Strengths have been compared and initial damage is reckoned.
1 point of damage minimum will always be taken by the losing player/monster (Perhaps with the option to Test Luck ) This can be explained as trauma or shock damage. The blow connected, even brutes encased in metal can be worn down by repeated blows.
DMs may wish to make heavy robes, leather, padded or light armour the "combat standard" (i.e. 0 modifer, with the possibility that clothes offer a -1 disadvantage to protection – again this would need some thought and testing) – bonuses would include: chest armour +1, full chain +1, a standard shield can be +1 (very large shield +2?), but shields limit the player to one handed/medium weapon use.
Perhaps armour can cumulative. A shield plus chest armour equals +2. I like systems which do this because you get a really solid "feel" for the equipment. Natural restrictions apply depending upon whether or not some armour can be “layered”, and perhaps there’s penalties for restrictive movement.
Dungeoneer claims it's Damage Chart already takes armour into account, although looking at it's explanation it assumes all armour offers the same amount of protection. So that kinda ties in well with your "combat standard". Taking your armour off means if you loose a combat round the winner gets to add +2 when rolling on the Damage Chart and conversely having a Shield gives them a -2 penalty when rolling on the Damage Chart
I assume by what you've written your rules directly
reduce the amount of damage taken (as opposed to the way weapons
increase the amount of damage caused) In which case I suggest the following modifiers
Unarmoured:
+1 Damage Taken
Heavy robes, Leather or Padded Armour:Normal Damage Taken
Chainmail:-1 Damage Taken
Plate Armour:-2 Damage Taken
Adventurer's can be equipped with 1 of the above types of body armour and may also carry a Shield or Buckler if they have a free hand (you cannot use a Shield at the same time as a Double Handed Weapon or if you are carrying a Sword in one hand and a Lantern in the other for instance)
Buckler:- 1 Damage Taken (Stacks with body armour)
Shield:-2 Damage Taken (Stacks with body armour)
Billiam Babble wrote
In campaigns with lots of armour, it’s often worth forcing the players to go swimming occasionally … They'll switch back to loincloths in no time!
IMHO One of the problems with the FF system is that there are no rules for movement or speed, it's up to the GM inflict penalties on how players move about in the same way as the Gamebooks do. For instance you'll some times get a paragraph like this:
“
286You walk a little further down the passageway until you come to a deep dark pit with a thin rope hanging across it. Looking down into the pit you can just about make out a bubbling green liquid, with the bones of several creatures floating in it and a burning sensation assaults your nostrils. It is a pool of acid. Turn to 154 if you want to try climbing long the rope to the other side, Turn to 22 if you want to try jumping across, Turn to 45 if you want to discard your Heavy Armour before attempting to jump or Turn to 112 if you wish to go back to the Junction”
climbing across the rope is almost certain death as it will probably break, if you try to jump with your amour you'll be asked to make a difficult LUCK test, but if you discard your armour and then jump the book will make the test easier on you. (and if you turn back and try the other way at the junction you'll probably be lead to a dead end or a room inhabited by a 3 Skeletons)
The point is there are no hard rules for how wearing heavy armour will affect your speed or agility in any given situation, so it's quite difficult to apply penalties for such things unless they are written directly into the adventure. For instance a paragraph in a FF roleplay adventure might say something like this:
“The dark grey metal device suspended from the ceiling is a huge magnet! make the adventurer's test for LUCK for each metal item they are carrying, if they are unlucky the item in question is attracted to the magnet and fly up toward the ceiling. If any of the adventurers are the wearing Plate Armour they found in Area 11 they must make a LUCK test for that too and if they are unlucky they will be sucked up by the magnet too!”
the problem being that all you've got go on are the basic 3 statistics SKILL, STAMINA and LUCK to which it's pretty hard to apply direct modifiers to because they are so widely used
Hmm ... actually I've kind drifted off point there, but that would make an awesome trap!
I think what I was trying to say is that in others system you could apply penalties for heavy armour directly to the character's statistics for example:
Full Plate Armour: Grants +2 Defence, but reduces Speed by -1 and Dexterity by -3
Meaning the GM just asks the player to make the required test for the situation and doesn't have to keep track of who is wearing what kind of armour and whether it would effect the test
Billiam Babble wrote
Missile combat? Oops, I hadn’t thought that far ahead …
Any reminders here upon missile combat in FF/AFF?
In the FF Introductory Roleplay Book ranged combat isn't really covered with it's own rules so I assume it works in the same way as close combat but the intended target can't fight back.
AFF of course has a much more complicated system and lots of modifiers for range, size of target what kind of weapon your using.
Looking for examples of how ranged weapons work in the Adventure Books, I didn't find many instances when ranged weapons are used.
Wheelies throwing knifes hit you on a roll of 1-3 on 1D6 and cause 2 Stamina damage
and I can't seem to find any special rules connected to the bow you with a silver arrow in Warlock of Firetop Mountain (but I may need to look harder)
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~The ravings of a single mad Goblin is bad enough, but such a power-hungry, malice-filled creature as Mortis can never hope to be understood~