Deadly Fast Play Rules in Fighting Fantasy
Posted by Billiam Babble on Nov 03, 2010; 10:59pm
URL: http://the-lost-and-the-damned.71.s1.nabble.com/Deadly-Fast-Play-Rules-in-Fighting-Fantasy-tp5703538.html
Deadly Fast Play Rules in Fighting Fantasy
in gamebooks and tabletop RPG play
I don’t have my copy of Advanced Fighting Fantasy Dungeoneer with me, neither do I have my copy of Fighting Fantasy: The introductory role playing game to hand. However, the following rule suggestions are more in the spirit of the latter, since the my ideas are simplistic enough to be applied to many of the FF gamebooks, especially those which use standard combat procedures and stats (Skill, Stamina, Luck).
Deadly fast play combat in Gamebooks and FF “Intro” RPG
I’ve tried this a few times with the gamebooks when I started to find the combat a bit slow – with the 2 Stamina damage, where combat can last up to 15 or so rounds, including stand-offs (yawn).
Normally, in combat the opponent with the highest attack strength (Skill + 2 dice) deals 2 points of damage to the loser’s Stamina. In fast play you treat the difference between the two Attack Strengths as damage. An Attack Strength of 18 vs. an Attack Strength of 12 will deal 6 points of damage.
Luck rolls can double or half the damage, rounding down. One point of damage is always caused by a winning blow.
For me this turned many encounters into life or death situations, whilst also I got the pleasure of destroying a monster with one death blow. SPLAT! Huzzah!
In some of the gamebooks eating provisions to regain 4 Stamina points is allowed. In gaming terms, these are like health packs, first aid, “binding wounds” etc. In those gamebooks, a variable could be used involving perhaps a d6 gain in Stamina) – I think I tried this and it was okay, but in the back of my mind I wondered if I was trying to turn FF into D&D.
Eating Provisions = Regain 1-6 Stamina points.
Alternative weapon damage rules for FF Intro RPG
The Riddling Reaver book introduces variable weapon damage to FF (which appeared in Warlock originally I think, and was later improved upon in Advanced FF/Dungeoneer) The points spread is kept small, with the average damage being 2 Stamina point, which is apt. I find rolling a d6 to finding a number between 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 a little laborious, although looking at the charts recently, fun could be had with making special damage dice, as are often discussed on this forum regarding HeroQuest and Warhammer. [insert link to customised dice threads...] But I digress!
I’d abandon this system for something a little more chaotic and mainstream.
Weapons can have bonuses, a "medium" sword being standard, +1 Large sword, +2 Flaming whip, +3 magic weapon, -1 for small daggers, weaker claws, -2 improvised weapon (chair leg), -3 for hand-to-hand/unarmed/non-martial art
(-3 modifier matches up with the current unarmed -3 Skill modifier which would now be optional as a rule since the player may be being penalised twice)
(If I remember right these sorts of bonuses are in WHFRPG 1st Ed) (?)
DMs may wish to have a greater range of bonuses and negatives for weapons, but with such large variables in damage derived from a difference in Attack Strength I’d recommend keeping the modifiers low. (nothing higher than +3 or +2 for mundane weapons perhaps)
The damage bonus is applied after the Attack Strengths have been compared.
Remember the difference in the Attack Strengths is the actual damage, so the damage bonus is added to that. After this Luck can the tested to double or half the damage.
For example:
OLAFF the Warrior
Skill 9 Stamina 14 Luck 10, Large Axe +1 damage
Is fighting an
ORC Skill 6 Stamina 6, Rusty Knife -1 damage
Neither gain bonuses from armour (leather and rags etc)
Attack Strengths are
OLAFF Sk9 + die rolls 4, 3 = 16
ORC Sk6 + die rolls 1, 5 = 12
OLAFF wins the attack round!
Damage to the ORC is (16 minus 12 = 4) +1 for the Large Axe = 5 points, reducing the ORC’s Stamina to 1 – nearly deaded!
OLAFF chooses not to Test his Luck (possible outcomes of 2 damage, if unlucky, or 10, if lucky), because he can afford to waste another round. If he wins the next round the ORC’ll be squished in one blow.
Of course it can go the other way, but fortunately for players, monsters don’t get to Test Luck to double or halve damage.
No matter how the maths turns out, one point of damage must be scored against the losing opponent, this caters for negative modifiers.
Optional "Double 6 Underdog Rule":
In hopeless combat situations where one skill is so high that the Attack Strength would be impossible to beat…
a double 6 always wins an attack round (but if the total is still lower than the opponent’s they only cause 1 point of damage). A further optional rule may be to Test Luck (unlucky equals zero, lucky equals 2 points of damage)
Alternative rule (borrowed from T&T “Spite” Damage): Double 6s cause one point of damage even if the player or monster has lost the attack. (This may need play testing)
Armour rules for FF Intro RPG (alternative rules for AFF)
To counter weapon damage bonuses, armour defence bonuses can be used. Again these will only be applied after the Attack Strengths have been compared and initial damage is reckoned.
1 point of damage minimum will always be taken by the losing player/monster (Perhaps with the option to Test Luck ) This can be explained as trauma or shock damage. The blow connected, even brutes encased in metal can be worn down by repeated blows.
DMs may wish to make heavy robes, leather, padded or light armour the "combat standard" (i.e. 0 modifer, with the possibility that clothes offer a -1 disadvantage to protection – again this would need some thought and testing) – bonuses would include: chest armour +1, full chain +1, a standard shield can be +1 (very large shield +2?), but shields limit the player to one handed/medium weapon use.
Perhaps armour can cumulative. A shield plus chest armour equals +2. I like systems which do this because you get a really solid "feel" for the equipment. Natural restrictions apply depending upon whether or not some armour can be “layered”, and perhaps there’s penalties for restrictive movement. In campaigns with lots of armour, it’s often worth forcing the players to go swimming occasionally … They'll switch back to loincloths in no time!
Going back to that fight...
Let’s say the ORC was wearing magical plate-mail granted him +3 defence.
OLAFF has still won the attack round.
Damage to the ORC equals (16 minus 12 = 4) +1 for the Large Axe = 5 points of damage…
But … the ORC’s armour absorbs 3 points, so 5 -3 = only 2 points of damage.
The ORC had 6 stamina which drops to 4 – still relatively healthy.
Of course, if OLAF does win, he might get to wear the magic armour, but he may have to Test his luck to see if it fits, or perhaps the ORC was sealed in and breaking the armour off his dead body will destroy it’s magical properties.
In Summary
The DAMAGE taken by Loser
Equals...
Winner’s Attack Strength
minus Loser’s Attack Strength
plus Winner’s weapon damage bonus
minus Loser’s armour defence bonus
Then apply modifications based on Luck
(Some DMs may want to apply this before armour is deducted)
Okay that’s the rough idea. Looking at it now it looks a bit more complicated then FF should get. But I like the fact that even mundane treasure to have value in play, so a starting player finding a full, but a little rusty, helm can really appreciate a +1 bonus. Shopping becomes more of a thrill too.
Magical or fire attacks can be absorbed by armour, but maybe with a modifier. After all armour is usually designed to withstand piercing and blunt damage, but a good toasting by a dragon is a different thing altogether. Poison and magic may sometimes ignore armour.
Variable protection values
(inspired by Stormbringer rules - very rough working)
Powerful armour may present variable protection like 2-7 points (1d6+1) – which can partially represent the fact that armour often has weaker areas than others. Also this may prevent dull, slow powerful stand offs, where a monster has 8 points of protection. Even full plate has gaps under the arms and so on…
One West End Games system using d6s would cumulate as follows +1, +2, 1d6, 1d6+1, 1d6+2, 2d6, 2d6+1 although I wouldn’t recommend using that scale here as the numbers become too high too quickly, but it illustrates small increments in combination with dice based variables.
Of course this is getting back into “fiddly” territory – which was my protest against AFF’s variable weapon damage rules, so without a lot of development in practice, I recommend just sticking to small bonuses, with limits to combinations of armour worn and numbers of weapons used.
Missile combat? Oops, I hadn’t thought that far ahead …
Any reminders here upon missile combat in FF/AFF?
URL: http://the-lost-and-the-damned.71.s1.nabble.com/Deadly-Fast-Play-Rules-in-Fighting-Fantasy-tp5703538.html
Deadly Fast Play Rules in Fighting Fantasy
in gamebooks and tabletop RPG play
I don’t have my copy of Advanced Fighting Fantasy Dungeoneer with me, neither do I have my copy of Fighting Fantasy: The introductory role playing game to hand. However, the following rule suggestions are more in the spirit of the latter, since the my ideas are simplistic enough to be applied to many of the FF gamebooks, especially those which use standard combat procedures and stats (Skill, Stamina, Luck).
Deadly fast play combat in Gamebooks and FF “Intro” RPG
I’ve tried this a few times with the gamebooks when I started to find the combat a bit slow – with the 2 Stamina damage, where combat can last up to 15 or so rounds, including stand-offs (yawn).
Normally, in combat the opponent with the highest attack strength (Skill + 2 dice) deals 2 points of damage to the loser’s Stamina. In fast play you treat the difference between the two Attack Strengths as damage. An Attack Strength of 18 vs. an Attack Strength of 12 will deal 6 points of damage.
Luck rolls can double or half the damage, rounding down. One point of damage is always caused by a winning blow.
For me this turned many encounters into life or death situations, whilst also I got the pleasure of destroying a monster with one death blow. SPLAT! Huzzah!
In some of the gamebooks eating provisions to regain 4 Stamina points is allowed. In gaming terms, these are like health packs, first aid, “binding wounds” etc. In those gamebooks, a variable could be used involving perhaps a d6 gain in Stamina) – I think I tried this and it was okay, but in the back of my mind I wondered if I was trying to turn FF into D&D.
Eating Provisions = Regain 1-6 Stamina points.
Alternative weapon damage rules for FF Intro RPG
The Riddling Reaver book introduces variable weapon damage to FF (which appeared in Warlock originally I think, and was later improved upon in Advanced FF/Dungeoneer) The points spread is kept small, with the average damage being 2 Stamina point, which is apt. I find rolling a d6 to finding a number between 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 a little laborious, although looking at the charts recently, fun could be had with making special damage dice, as are often discussed on this forum regarding HeroQuest and Warhammer. [insert link to customised dice threads...] But I digress!
I’d abandon this system for something a little more chaotic and mainstream.
Weapons can have bonuses, a "medium" sword being standard, +1 Large sword, +2 Flaming whip, +3 magic weapon, -1 for small daggers, weaker claws, -2 improvised weapon (chair leg), -3 for hand-to-hand/unarmed/non-martial art
(-3 modifier matches up with the current unarmed -3 Skill modifier which would now be optional as a rule since the player may be being penalised twice)
(If I remember right these sorts of bonuses are in WHFRPG 1st Ed) (?)
DMs may wish to have a greater range of bonuses and negatives for weapons, but with such large variables in damage derived from a difference in Attack Strength I’d recommend keeping the modifiers low. (nothing higher than +3 or +2 for mundane weapons perhaps)
The damage bonus is applied after the Attack Strengths have been compared.
Remember the difference in the Attack Strengths is the actual damage, so the damage bonus is added to that. After this Luck can the tested to double or half the damage.
For example:
OLAFF the Warrior
Skill 9 Stamina 14 Luck 10, Large Axe +1 damage
Is fighting an
ORC Skill 6 Stamina 6, Rusty Knife -1 damage
Neither gain bonuses from armour (leather and rags etc)
Attack Strengths are
OLAFF Sk9 + die rolls 4, 3 = 16
ORC Sk6 + die rolls 1, 5 = 12
OLAFF wins the attack round!
Damage to the ORC is (16 minus 12 = 4) +1 for the Large Axe = 5 points, reducing the ORC’s Stamina to 1 – nearly deaded!
OLAFF chooses not to Test his Luck (possible outcomes of 2 damage, if unlucky, or 10, if lucky), because he can afford to waste another round. If he wins the next round the ORC’ll be squished in one blow.
Of course it can go the other way, but fortunately for players, monsters don’t get to Test Luck to double or halve damage.
No matter how the maths turns out, one point of damage must be scored against the losing opponent, this caters for negative modifiers.
Optional "Double 6 Underdog Rule":
In hopeless combat situations where one skill is so high that the Attack Strength would be impossible to beat…
a double 6 always wins an attack round (but if the total is still lower than the opponent’s they only cause 1 point of damage). A further optional rule may be to Test Luck (unlucky equals zero, lucky equals 2 points of damage)
Alternative rule (borrowed from T&T “Spite” Damage): Double 6s cause one point of damage even if the player or monster has lost the attack. (This may need play testing)
Armour rules for FF Intro RPG (alternative rules for AFF)
To counter weapon damage bonuses, armour defence bonuses can be used. Again these will only be applied after the Attack Strengths have been compared and initial damage is reckoned.
1 point of damage minimum will always be taken by the losing player/monster (Perhaps with the option to Test Luck ) This can be explained as trauma or shock damage. The blow connected, even brutes encased in metal can be worn down by repeated blows.
DMs may wish to make heavy robes, leather, padded or light armour the "combat standard" (i.e. 0 modifer, with the possibility that clothes offer a -1 disadvantage to protection – again this would need some thought and testing) – bonuses would include: chest armour +1, full chain +1, a standard shield can be +1 (very large shield +2?), but shields limit the player to one handed/medium weapon use.
Perhaps armour can cumulative. A shield plus chest armour equals +2. I like systems which do this because you get a really solid "feel" for the equipment. Natural restrictions apply depending upon whether or not some armour can be “layered”, and perhaps there’s penalties for restrictive movement. In campaigns with lots of armour, it’s often worth forcing the players to go swimming occasionally … They'll switch back to loincloths in no time!
Going back to that fight...
Let’s say the ORC was wearing magical plate-mail granted him +3 defence.
OLAFF has still won the attack round.
Damage to the ORC equals (16 minus 12 = 4) +1 for the Large Axe = 5 points of damage…
But … the ORC’s armour absorbs 3 points, so 5 -3 = only 2 points of damage.
The ORC had 6 stamina which drops to 4 – still relatively healthy.
Of course, if OLAF does win, he might get to wear the magic armour, but he may have to Test his luck to see if it fits, or perhaps the ORC was sealed in and breaking the armour off his dead body will destroy it’s magical properties.
In Summary
The DAMAGE taken by Loser
Equals...
Winner’s Attack Strength
minus Loser’s Attack Strength
plus Winner’s weapon damage bonus
minus Loser’s armour defence bonus
Then apply modifications based on Luck
(Some DMs may want to apply this before armour is deducted)
Okay that’s the rough idea. Looking at it now it looks a bit more complicated then FF should get. But I like the fact that even mundane treasure to have value in play, so a starting player finding a full, but a little rusty, helm can really appreciate a +1 bonus. Shopping becomes more of a thrill too.
Magical or fire attacks can be absorbed by armour, but maybe with a modifier. After all armour is usually designed to withstand piercing and blunt damage, but a good toasting by a dragon is a different thing altogether. Poison and magic may sometimes ignore armour.
Variable protection values
(inspired by Stormbringer rules - very rough working)
Powerful armour may present variable protection like 2-7 points (1d6+1) – which can partially represent the fact that armour often has weaker areas than others. Also this may prevent dull, slow powerful stand offs, where a monster has 8 points of protection. Even full plate has gaps under the arms and so on…
One West End Games system using d6s would cumulate as follows +1, +2, 1d6, 1d6+1, 1d6+2, 2d6, 2d6+1 although I wouldn’t recommend using that scale here as the numbers become too high too quickly, but it illustrates small increments in combination with dice based variables.
Of course this is getting back into “fiddly” territory – which was my protest against AFF’s variable weapon damage rules, so without a lot of development in practice, I recommend just sticking to small bonuses, with limits to combinations of armour worn and numbers of weapons used.
Missile combat? Oops, I hadn’t thought that far ahead …
Any reminders here upon missile combat in FF/AFF?
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