S&W "White Box" clone of the first ever D&D system
Posted by Billiam Babble on Feb 14, 2010; 1:07am
URL: http://the-lost-and-the-damned.71.s1.nabble.com/S-W-White-Box-clone-of-the-first-ever-D-D-system-tp4568607.html
Okay I'm rubbish at writing reviews, I just gush with first impressions and rarely get to play test systems.
This post is merely a pointer to Swords & Wizardry White Box edition, which is a D&D retro-clone. (Well it was until I babbled for a few too many paragraphs)
Free PDF of Swords & Wizardry Whitebox Rules
http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/?page_id=6
I was so intrigued by this one I had to order a print-to-order copy from Lulu.com (partly for research about Lulu's print and delivery service - incidentally the parcel delivery service can be a bit of a pain, especially when you don't know when it's going to arrive and the nearest depot is in Narnia, but I digress). I mainly ordered it because I got bored of printing out the Basic Fantasy Role Playing PDF (see other thread) Looking at their web page now, I can't quite work out which edition I've actually purchased. Mine had the Frost Giants on the cover, not the dragon ... but hey a bound copy is a lovely thing.
I've never seen inside the original (American) White Box edition of Dungeons and Dragons ( picture link, editions link ) so this re-writing of the old rules under the OGL license is a real treat.
Like the Basic Fantasy RPG and other "clones", the authors have remained true to Wizards copyright license by including armour classes which "ascend" as opposed to the older system where "minus 4" meant you hard super magical protection and a higher number like 9 meant your padded loin cloth was no good against, arrows, blades, teeth or twigs. Apart from the presence of the "Ascending Armour Class" (AAC) everything else appears to be refreshingly old school (I hate the phrase, but in this case the school is so old that it pre-dates blackboards..., okay no, nearly pre-dates flares...) We have entered the realm of Original D&D. Now, Original D&D is played by elitists who feel that the rot set in and that role playing games went to the dogs with Basic and Expert D&D. Don't mention AD&D to these guys, because you'd be cramping their style with too much power play and "restrictions". Okay, that's unfair, but it's amazing after all these years that people on forums can still argue about loyalty to one set of die modifiers compared to another which are almost identical (although I actually find its a relief to discover that some people or so passionate about a handful of poorly printed badly illustrated pamphlets from the 1970s - I mean, these things are relics) You have to take it on good faith that the S&W Whitebox is an almost word-for-word facsimile of OD&D (D&D in the white box).
Mythmere Games, writers of the Swords and Wizardry, claim the Whitebox "uses ONLY the first three books of the original game, with no material from the supplements at all". Elsewhere (although I can't find the quote at the moment) it at least implies that the absence of the supplements makes the system complete, stand alone and easier to build from. All the way through the text are House Rule boxes - presumably these have been added to the original system to make it that bit more playable and keeping in line with contemporary d20 play - Wisdom bonuses on certain types of magic saves for example.
I didn't know that Thieves were not present in the first editions of D&D, but that Clerics were! Clerics were invented before thieves. Just think about that. Clerics are not exactly the staple of high fantasy or medieval literature, but perhaps they were the perfect PC in a game where undead monster types were numerous. Thieves, of course relate to a specific type of sidekick and a whole genre of fantasy novels. Perhaps Clerics do also, but I must have missed the shelf of Fantasy Evangelism in WHSmiths. (Cue to be humilated ... when I discover that Conan was in fact a type of priest in half of the novels ....)
The classes in the S&W Whitebox are
- Cleric
- Fighter
- Magic User
That's all folks.
Suddenly, the much berated Tunnels & Trolls with its Warrior, Wizard and Rogue (Warrior-Wizard mix) classes doesn't seem so simplistic (I had 5th edition, so lord knows what 1st ed. T&T was like).
There are races. They are severely limited in terms of levels, but benefit from racial bonuses.
Dwarves and Halflings can only be Fighters.
Elves can be Fighters or Magic Users, or a clumsy mixed class of both.
So I guess, only humans get to carry the holy symbols. Fair enough. The rest are just ungodly half-beings and pointy eared devil types ...
Character classes determine saving throws. But wait, there's only ONE saving throw attribute - although, there's many adjustments and exceptions (race and class). Magic Wand, fire breath, falling rock, falling in love, falling off cliffs - that's one number, modified by circumstance and maybe an attribute modifier (dexterity, strength, wisdom) - which are mentioned a lot less than you think. ONE saving throw!
[20.2.10 Edit: In D&D Men And Magic, characters have 5 saving throw categories similar to Basic. S&W Whitebox definitely differs here. Incidentally, in the Silver Anniversary Boxed Edition of D&D the character sheets only have one Save Throw number.]
Attributes: all the same. The six staples St Dx In Wi Cn Ch. 3d6. Love it.
I'll come back to attribute modifiers - I had a bit of a shock, but it was really my second or third shock after classes and wait for it ...
Weapon Damage.
Combat. It's sort of the same stuff we're used to: Roll higher than armour class with a d20, then roll the damage and take it off the hit points. Fair enough. Different weapons do different damage. Well, they do, but no that different ...
Notice anything?
I mean, a two-handed sword does 1d6+1 damage! :o (Look, just give me a shield, bugger the two-handed weapons!) All the damage dice are d6s. But, but, I like my d10s!
It struck me as wonderfully simple: d20s throw to hit, throw a d6 for damage with simple modifiers - you have a small weapon -1, a strong character +1 (optional rule), or and don't forget that magic ring +1.
Can you imagine OD&D players horror when they saw the new damage rules with all those many sided dice with big numbers? ;) I have to roll a what?
This reminds me of when you're learning Basic D&D (red box version) you're told you can use a d6 for all weapons and that variable weapon damage is a more advanced rule which is optional when playing early games (eek, look at all the funny shaped dice... how will I remember which one to roll? No, but seriously, I feared missile weapons and magic rules, but that might have been because I started with Fighting Fantasy where everything was gritty and up close, sword on sword, like it should be, range is for elves...)
[20.2.10 Edit. Major amendment required here. Although I was excited about variable weapon damage using bonuses on d6s, there doesn't appear to be any variable weapon damage in the first three OD&D books upon which S&W Whitebox is apparently based. D6s are used for damage, but so far reading through I haven't found any special variable damage rules, which is strange considering the variable prices and weights of weapons. In the Greyhawk supplement I, Gygax jumps straight to d10s and d8s and so forth for weapon damage. So at no point is there a variable damage system which uses d6s. However, Gygax also suggests in Greyhawk different Hit Dice for characters and monsters so maybe S&W is trying to keep the game balanced because all hit dice are d6s.]
Flip back through the rules and the attribute bonus table is also very sparing. So, let's look up how your beefy, yet agile character, Str 18, Dex 14, is going to benefit in combat.
Ye Gods, this system is tight. He gets a +1 on hit rolls with melee weapons, that's it. But again, easy to remember: you either have a bonus (or negative modifier) or you don't. (*Snaps bow*)
In a system like this a +1 magic ring or sword would be a very powerful artefact indeed.
AD&D Strength 18(45) "+4" anyone? (I may need to re-check this... pass me the OSRIC pdf...)
The only attribute given a range of bonuses is Charisma in relation to the hiring of muscle and labourers (when you become a land owner, or are just trying to command respect from a penny thug you hired for the day.) Perhaps it comes into Morale rules too ...
Experience Points - XP for characters is very similar to other D&D games - with that bizarre prime requisite bonus of 5% if you're wise, strong or smart (in Basic its 5% or a mighty 10%).* Monsters XP is similar to Basic/Expert D&D but that instead of an "XP awarded" value being listed you get an equivalent HD value of the monster - which doesn't seem that far off the modern Challenge Rating, at first glance.
*[20.2.10 Edit - 10% and 5% adjustments are both used in OD&D. Again, Mythmere Games are simplifying.]
Spells? Extremely simple descriptions, but with lots of reminders that the DM's decision is final, plus the usual warnings about the misuse of Wishes. I haven't absorbed difference in spells with other systems, suffice to say, Magic Users are still extremely weak in the lower levels and then stunningly powerful at later levels. Many of the classic favourites are in there.
Hit Dice (for determining Hit Points): all d6s. What?! Naturally, only a Fighter gets to roll a whole d6 every level. Lucky, tough Fighters. Other characters have to suffice with +1 hp every other level. It's shocking! Monsters have d6 for Hit Dice. Again, there's a beautiful uniformity in all this.
Incidentally, the Monsters seem to have a less special attacks. Trogs don't stink, for example. (Cool, 'cos vomit rules bore me.)
Levels. Level 10 seems to be the highest level, but the S&W version provides some guidelines for further levels especially since MU's would have no access to Level 6 spells until Level 12. We can assume that Level 6 spells were originally included for magical treasure, monsters, gods and super villains only.
Okay, I'm running out of steam here.
Summary:
If you're really into vintage systems and love Dungeons & Dragons, check it out. You may never play it, but it's a fascinating, succinct read.
(By the way if you want to still want to play an old style Thief - you crazy modern progressive heretic, you-, there are additional character supplements on the Mythmere website:
http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/?page_id=18 )
URL: http://the-lost-and-the-damned.71.s1.nabble.com/S-W-White-Box-clone-of-the-first-ever-D-D-system-tp4568607.html
Okay I'm rubbish at writing reviews, I just gush with first impressions and rarely get to play test systems.
This post is merely a pointer to Swords & Wizardry White Box edition, which is a D&D retro-clone. (Well it was until I babbled for a few too many paragraphs)
Free PDF of Swords & Wizardry Whitebox Rules
http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/?page_id=6
I was so intrigued by this one I had to order a print-to-order copy from Lulu.com (partly for research about Lulu's print and delivery service - incidentally the parcel delivery service can be a bit of a pain, especially when you don't know when it's going to arrive and the nearest depot is in Narnia, but I digress). I mainly ordered it because I got bored of printing out the Basic Fantasy Role Playing PDF (see other thread) Looking at their web page now, I can't quite work out which edition I've actually purchased. Mine had the Frost Giants on the cover, not the dragon ... but hey a bound copy is a lovely thing.
I've never seen inside the original (American) White Box edition of Dungeons and Dragons ( picture link, editions link ) so this re-writing of the old rules under the OGL license is a real treat.
Like the Basic Fantasy RPG and other "clones", the authors have remained true to Wizards copyright license by including armour classes which "ascend" as opposed to the older system where "minus 4" meant you hard super magical protection and a higher number like 9 meant your padded loin cloth was no good against, arrows, blades, teeth or twigs. Apart from the presence of the "Ascending Armour Class" (AAC) everything else appears to be refreshingly old school (I hate the phrase, but in this case the school is so old that it pre-dates blackboards..., okay no, nearly pre-dates flares...) We have entered the realm of Original D&D. Now, Original D&D is played by elitists who feel that the rot set in and that role playing games went to the dogs with Basic and Expert D&D. Don't mention AD&D to these guys, because you'd be cramping their style with too much power play and "restrictions". Okay, that's unfair, but it's amazing after all these years that people on forums can still argue about loyalty to one set of die modifiers compared to another which are almost identical (although I actually find its a relief to discover that some people or so passionate about a handful of poorly printed badly illustrated pamphlets from the 1970s - I mean, these things are relics) You have to take it on good faith that the S&W Whitebox is an almost word-for-word facsimile of OD&D (D&D in the white box).
Mythmere Games, writers of the Swords and Wizardry, claim the Whitebox "uses ONLY the first three books of the original game, with no material from the supplements at all". Elsewhere (although I can't find the quote at the moment) it at least implies that the absence of the supplements makes the system complete, stand alone and easier to build from. All the way through the text are House Rule boxes - presumably these have been added to the original system to make it that bit more playable and keeping in line with contemporary d20 play - Wisdom bonuses on certain types of magic saves for example.
I didn't know that Thieves were not present in the first editions of D&D, but that Clerics were! Clerics were invented before thieves. Just think about that. Clerics are not exactly the staple of high fantasy or medieval literature, but perhaps they were the perfect PC in a game where undead monster types were numerous. Thieves, of course relate to a specific type of sidekick and a whole genre of fantasy novels. Perhaps Clerics do also, but I must have missed the shelf of Fantasy Evangelism in WHSmiths. (Cue to be humilated ... when I discover that Conan was in fact a type of priest in half of the novels ....)
The classes in the S&W Whitebox are
- Cleric
- Fighter
- Magic User
That's all folks.
Suddenly, the much berated Tunnels & Trolls with its Warrior, Wizard and Rogue (Warrior-Wizard mix) classes doesn't seem so simplistic (I had 5th edition, so lord knows what 1st ed. T&T was like).
There are races. They are severely limited in terms of levels, but benefit from racial bonuses.
Dwarves and Halflings can only be Fighters.
Elves can be Fighters or Magic Users, or a clumsy mixed class of both.
So I guess, only humans get to carry the holy symbols. Fair enough. The rest are just ungodly half-beings and pointy eared devil types ...
Character classes determine saving throws. But wait, there's only ONE saving throw attribute - although, there's many adjustments and exceptions (race and class). Magic Wand, fire breath, falling rock, falling in love, falling off cliffs - that's one number, modified by circumstance and maybe an attribute modifier (dexterity, strength, wisdom) - which are mentioned a lot less than you think. ONE saving throw!
[20.2.10 Edit: In D&D Men And Magic, characters have 5 saving throw categories similar to Basic. S&W Whitebox definitely differs here. Incidentally, in the Silver Anniversary Boxed Edition of D&D the character sheets only have one Save Throw number.]
Attributes: all the same. The six staples St Dx In Wi Cn Ch. 3d6. Love it.
I'll come back to attribute modifiers - I had a bit of a shock, but it was really my second or third shock after classes and wait for it ...
Weapon Damage.
Combat. It's sort of the same stuff we're used to: Roll higher than armour class with a d20, then roll the damage and take it off the hit points. Fair enough. Different weapons do different damage. Well, they do, but no that different ...
Weapon / damage
Axe, battle 1d6+1
Axe, hand 1d6
Club 1d6
Dagger 1d6-1
Flail 1d6
Mace 1d6
Morning Star 1d6
Polearm (bardiche, halberd, etc.) 1d6+1
Spear 1d6
Staff 1d6
Sword, long 1d6
Sword, short 1d6-1
Sword, two-handed 1d6+1
Notice anything?
I mean, a two-handed sword does 1d6+1 damage! :o (Look, just give me a shield, bugger the two-handed weapons!) All the damage dice are d6s. But, but, I like my d10s!
It struck me as wonderfully simple: d20s throw to hit, throw a d6 for damage with simple modifiers - you have a small weapon -1, a strong character +1 (optional rule), or and don't forget that magic ring +1.
Can you imagine OD&D players horror when they saw the new damage rules with all those many sided dice with big numbers? ;) I have to roll a what?
This reminds me of when you're learning Basic D&D (red box version) you're told you can use a d6 for all weapons and that variable weapon damage is a more advanced rule which is optional when playing early games (eek, look at all the funny shaped dice... how will I remember which one to roll? No, but seriously, I feared missile weapons and magic rules, but that might have been because I started with Fighting Fantasy where everything was gritty and up close, sword on sword, like it should be, range is for elves...)
[20.2.10 Edit. Major amendment required here. Although I was excited about variable weapon damage using bonuses on d6s, there doesn't appear to be any variable weapon damage in the first three OD&D books upon which S&W Whitebox is apparently based. D6s are used for damage, but so far reading through I haven't found any special variable damage rules, which is strange considering the variable prices and weights of weapons. In the Greyhawk supplement I, Gygax jumps straight to d10s and d8s and so forth for weapon damage. So at no point is there a variable damage system which uses d6s. However, Gygax also suggests in Greyhawk different Hit Dice for characters and monsters so maybe S&W is trying to keep the game balanced because all hit dice are d6s.]
Flip back through the rules and the attribute bonus table is also very sparing. So, let's look up how your beefy, yet agile character, Str 18, Dex 14, is going to benefit in combat.
Attribute Roll Description Bonus
3–6 Below Average -1
7–14 Average
15–18 Above Average +1
Ye Gods, this system is tight. He gets a +1 on hit rolls with melee weapons, that's it. But again, easy to remember: you either have a bonus (or negative modifier) or you don't. (*Snaps bow*)
In a system like this a +1 magic ring or sword would be a very powerful artefact indeed.
AD&D Strength 18(45) "+4" anyone? (I may need to re-check this... pass me the OSRIC pdf...)
The only attribute given a range of bonuses is Charisma in relation to the hiring of muscle and labourers (when you become a land owner, or are just trying to command respect from a penny thug you hired for the day.) Perhaps it comes into Morale rules too ...
Experience Points - XP for characters is very similar to other D&D games - with that bizarre prime requisite bonus of 5% if you're wise, strong or smart (in Basic its 5% or a mighty 10%).* Monsters XP is similar to Basic/Expert D&D but that instead of an "XP awarded" value being listed you get an equivalent HD value of the monster - which doesn't seem that far off the modern Challenge Rating, at first glance.
*[20.2.10 Edit - 10% and 5% adjustments are both used in OD&D. Again, Mythmere Games are simplifying.]
Spells? Extremely simple descriptions, but with lots of reminders that the DM's decision is final, plus the usual warnings about the misuse of Wishes. I haven't absorbed difference in spells with other systems, suffice to say, Magic Users are still extremely weak in the lower levels and then stunningly powerful at later levels. Many of the classic favourites are in there.
Hit Dice (for determining Hit Points): all d6s. What?! Naturally, only a Fighter gets to roll a whole d6 every level. Lucky, tough Fighters. Other characters have to suffice with +1 hp every other level. It's shocking! Monsters have d6 for Hit Dice. Again, there's a beautiful uniformity in all this.
Incidentally, the Monsters seem to have a less special attacks. Trogs don't stink, for example. (Cool, 'cos vomit rules bore me.)
Levels. Level 10 seems to be the highest level, but the S&W version provides some guidelines for further levels especially since MU's would have no access to Level 6 spells until Level 12. We can assume that Level 6 spells were originally included for magical treasure, monsters, gods and super villains only.
Okay, I'm running out of steam here.
Summary:
If you're really into vintage systems and love Dungeons & Dragons, check it out. You may never play it, but it's a fascinating, succinct read.
(By the way if you want to still want to play an old style Thief - you crazy modern progressive heretic, you-, there are additional character supplements on the Mythmere website:
http://www.swordsandwizardry.com/?page_id=18 )
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