any one else totally pissed off with GW?

[Richie the Orc]

Ok so who else has given up playing Warhammer/40k? I've made the decision that my Warhammer orcs and my 40k orks have got to go! there is no way that I'm spending any more cash on expanding my armies at the prices GW are asking. A mate of mine who wanted to start playing went into his local GW and priced up a new High Elf start up set, with the army book, a battalion starter, phoenix and magic cards they quoted him £138.50! How the hell can they charge those prices for stuff? we've both decided to take up playing Fantasy Flights excellent X Wing, £26.00 for a stater set and about 10 quid a pop for any extra ships we want, and they're pre-painted ready to play with! I'm still going to play classic GW games just not the over priced crap they keep churning out now!

[MarkRG]

Hi Mate
I agree with the prices are stupid. However there are many companies that sell orcs. Mantic, em4 and the models are not to bad. The current GW sets are only good for spare parts.
Happy gaming Mark

[Billiam Babble]

I bought a White Dwarf anniversary issue recently.  How much was it? £5-£6?
My partner buys magazines which are heavily subsidized by advertising - for prices like £1.50, considering that White Dwarf is 100% house catalogue, why isn't it free?  I'd give codexes away free online - if people are really to buy such stupendous prices for the figures.  It's got more and more shocking as the years have gone by.
I'm surprised an organisation of parents haven't tried to sue GW for the total cost of their children being involved in the hobby today.  Also do they guarantee rules won't be replaced within a given period?  

(Just my two cents worth ;) )

[greenstuff_gav]

i'll give GW one thing; having spent this week assembling Mantic Undead, GW Plastics are expensive, but easy and pretty good quality.. the mantic figures are terribad but proper cheap so it's a trade-off...

[MarkRG]

 I agree in general that the plastics models from other compaines are not as detailed.
However i bought a mantic dwarf command set and they are well detailed nice models.

In the end do want a big army of expensive detailed models or less detailed cheaper models.

For skirmish models i want detail. For armies i just want to fight. Painting the same model bores me.

To get through painting big armies i paint about 4 at a time while painting a couple of skirmish models or terrain.

At the moment i am slowly building a M4 Sherman tank that one of my family bought me just to do something different.

GW is well over priced but by doing this they have stabbed themselves in the foot as i have stopped buying there goods and i bet many others have to. with all the other compaines now coming out I feel GW days are numbered.

Happy gaming guys.
Mark

[messyart]

I must say, I am fond of the mantic undead models.
The poses aren't amazing, you have to chop and glue the arms to get variation and sometimes the neck needs a bit of re-angling, but the detail on them is pleasantly toned down. GW versions tend to look... Just kind of silly. Their zombies (If they're still using the same old ones or not, I don't know anymore) have a massively comical look to them and their ghouls.. Are better served as bloodletters or plaguebearers.

[jogar_t_hutt]

well as you may know ALL the unsupported games GW have are going to be gone for go soon (i read it somewhere) & the alienation of the retailers & fans & the business model, Yes i can see it as a cost effective but at the cost of its cashcow (us) & the business, Lets face it its AGENT ORANGE, Another thing Advertising, i've Never understood the methodology behind it, Word of mouth?!?!
ok its safe to say we was introduced to wargaming by someone & in turn we have introduced others to this world of gods & monsters
(some 5 hours later sorry shopping lol)
why o why dont they have some proper marketing, the last time i saw a tv add was for battlemasters 15 years ago & the idea of having a highstreet shop & anyone "popping in". & besides when we (old farts like us) first started you would walk by the shop & see an army of young people having a great time but now you go past a GW IF its open at all its like Black Books, you go in looking for whatevey & once they have your money your almost thrown out,

but i do like the mantic dwarfs (wargames factory skellies are the same size as mantics) i like PP, i'm a real advocate (bitch) for some of our local producers so Spartian games & 4ground

sorry about the rant

[MortiS-the-Lost]

I first became annoyed at GW's ever rising prices around about 10-11 years ago - and since then I've seen not only the prices continue to climb but the quality gradually drop at the same time. The release of FineCast was the last straw and since then I have not purchased any GW products brand new.
Fortunately there are many, many alternative companies out there producing superior products for much lower prices. If you're still buying from GW it's not a matter of paying more to get better - it's a matter of paying far too much for very little in return, you'll find most other miniature companies charge less and give you much better.

I'll probably be repeating what I've said elsewhere on the forum, but here's a few companies I highly recommend

Mantic tend to be the first one people mention and despite there being a perception among some gamers that Mantic are not as good as GW, it's simply not true - Mantic's products are of equal and increasingly better quality than GW (partly due to Mantic getting better, partly due to GW getting worse) and any genuine criticisms about the quality of Mantic's plastics are equally true of GW's plastics. (try getting your friend to price up the same Elf army using Mantic products)

A long time favourite company of mine is Ral Partha - many gamers seem to think they're gone - but it's not true, Ral Partha live on in forms of Ral Partha Europe and Iron Wind Metals both still producing some of the best metal miniatures available - they keep their old miniatures in production and produce some new ones too - all at great prices too

Reaper is one company that does have a legitimate claim to producing the world's best miniatures and they recently stormed into the affordable end of the market with their ultra-low price and at the same time excellent quality Bones range of plastic miniatures, which attracted a lot of attention on KickStarter last year. The Bones Range provides you with some of highest quality miniatures available at some of the lowest prices you'll find - many of Bones miniatures are perfect plastic reproductions of Reaper's metal miniatures, renown for their fine sculpting and huge ranges of different miniatures.

Keeping alive many of Grenadier's classic ranges at some incredibility low prices, EM4 miniatures are THE go-to company for the gamer on a budget. As well as some great ranges of metal miniatures (including a Call of Cthulhu range) , EM4 do a range of plastic miniatures - which while not the best quality you will find are certainly the lowest priced - bags of 50 miniatures for £7.70 makes them great for bulking out an army or 2    

Finally - unlike GW, most other companies do provide their game rules for free, which allows you to try out a new game without having to make any financial commitment  

Remember it's YOUR hobby, not GW's (or anyone else's). So play the games you want to with the models want - that's what The Lost and the Damned forum is about

[jogar_t_hutt]

MortiS-the-Lost wrote

 Remember it's YOUR hobby, not GW's (or anyone else's). So play the games you want to with the models want - that's what The Lost and the Damned forum is about

very true

[Sjeng]

Totally agree. I never started with warhammer, and I never will either. I only buy warhammer minis on sale or secondhand if I think I can use them with Heroquest. I also bought mantic minis, undead and dwarves, and I think they are great!

[jogar_t_hutt]

i got another thing that gets on my tits, In london alone has 30 GW stores & 38 independent retailers within a 25 miles of eachother !?!?
what the feck!?!? you dont need blancket bombing like that, if you want to cut costs shut 10 of them youd save £8,000,000 & your indies would triple there takings
management are morons!!!!!

[Sjeng]

Yeah, that is weird. Maastricht has 0 GW shops, and 1, yes 1, miniature hobby store that is a GW affiliate. But they also sell lots of boardgames, kites and magic tricks, and also Sedition Wars and some Mantic. But mainly GW stuff.
I actually think that's great, because IF you wanted to buy Warhammer, then there's 1 shop to go to, and if they don't have it in store, you can order it there. It's also the warhammer gaming hub here, people gather there to play warhammer on huge tables with lots of scenery. Not that I feel compelled to ever do such a thing. When we game, we game at home :)
They would probably look funny at me if I went there with my HeroQuest board :P

[General Biakal]

i feel i have an opionion to share!

i agree. with all of it.

it is a difficult time for me as my hobby mojo always fades this time of year for my other love, cars. and as i have some big descisions on the way regarding my classic car hobby stuff in general will be on the back burner.

BUT. i have an immense collection of Imperial Guard minis, and am indeed able to field the entire codex.

i get a lot out of wargaming, mostly the "building" side of it, but the painting too and then last place the actual dice throwing.

but what makes me negative are the following:

A. old models that have long since paid for themselves being down-packed from 20 to 10. for no reason, and then creeping back to their former cost. 100% price increase.

B. "juvenilation" of the GW media, including the website and especially the magazine.

C. some questionable sculpts. the wolf riders for space wolves looks so fucking spasticated i genuinley considered jacking it in.

D. Some bits of the new edition are not sitting well with me.

E. Matt Ward.

F. models that will soon be more diserable jumping up in price (bastion with no rules £18, bastion with mad fucking overpowered rules £25)


in the end it is all down to value for money. i NEVER buy books. I buy what i like, not what is "teh nu hotnesz", but I need sense of value for money even though I know they are overpriced. my honest and personal opinion is everything is 25-30% too much, and no more. but that is creeping up. my current formula is:

"if i had the staff 50% off, would i think id got a massive bargain". and the answer sometimes is yes (sentiel, cadian command squad, chimera) and often NO. if i think it is overpriced even at 50% off then thats a worry. and forgeworld new stuff is getting worse, but the old stuff is still great value COMPARED TO MAINSTREAM.

[jogar_t_hutt]

to General B,
2 things!
first, forgeworld yes i agree with you there & another thing is why is some of there stuff so badly out of scale, THEODORE BRUCKNER (the mounted man) is so out of proportion with any other troop it looks silly
& Matt Ward?

[messyart]

Matt Ward.

[greenstuff_gav]

Matt Ward is an excitable gamer who unfortunately writes Codices; this boosts GW's "New Releases must be game-winning" business strategy and also leads to crap like "Wouldn't it be cool if..."

... Grey Knights had this giant robot guy piloted by a terminator!

... Blood Angels are so furious that they deploy their tanks from orbit to get to the fighting!

... the Emperor predicted this alien species immune to Chaos.. everyone could totally ally with Tau!

and so on; if you look at his fluff* and rules you can totally see a rabid GW fanboy with terrible Mary-Sue issues!

*i hate this term as it was originally derogatory, but the drivel that man puts out is at *best* described as fluff...

[MarkRG]

At the end of the day, it gets dark.

Money is the best talker of all. People won't buy it if it's shit and companies go out of business.
What Gw have that most other stores don't is a gaming area. If i'v had a good game and i'm surrounded by new models, books i find myself buying some.
I also see Gw products in the shops. Toymaster and a couple of others stores. If it hadn't been for Mort i would have never have known about the other companies out there because i never really looked. But when your not big on computers you will never see these other products.
Happy gaming guys M

[MortiS-the-Lost]

The thing is,due to their stores GW have a false monopoly over the miniatures industry, especially here in the UK. Many fans think GW are the only miniature producing company in the world because that's how they got into the hobby and they don't know of any others.
The internet has done something towards opening a people's eyes, but the most popular hobby sites tend to be GW fan dominated and very insular when it comes to non-GW products.  
Many GW fans when confronted with miniatures by another company will simply proclaim that they are 'a cheap knock-off' 'copying GW' and act like GW invented it all - denial is another big thing with GW fans - they can't except that they are paying well over the odds for what they are buying and don't like the fact most other companies charge a lot less than GW - the attitude of “If someone else is doing what GW are doing but for less, there has to be something wrong with them” and  “If it's not GW it's crap” is a big part of what keeps GW in business and keeps smaller companies out of the main stream.
These 'hard-core' fans refuse to see the flaws in GW products and in their next breath will try they hardest to tear down anything non-GW, it's brand loyalty gone nuts!
One of these fan-boys may be reading this thread right now, fan-rage building up, Caps Lock ablaze ready to call us all haters (haters is the GW fan boy term for non-GW gamers), ready to leap into this thread and strike a blow back for beloved GW, tell us how much better the new extra-big £60 plastic kits are than any other miniatures ever made … and so on.
Actually they're not all like that - a few of them will try and appear more open-minded by telling you they've played 'Warma-hoards' and/or Infinity and decided they prefer 40k anyway (You'll note that WarMachine and Infinity are the next most expensive miniatures to buy after GW).
Then again a few of the more rage-bound will tell you they've played a demo of “Mantic” (they rarely actually know the names of the games) and that they thought it was really terrible (asking for details often exposes the fact they are making it up to try and prove their point)

But anyway the point is, as long as GW can provide an environment free of out side influences they will remain in business and be able to charge what want for whatever cheaply made products they want. This is why White Dwarf isn't a real magazine any more - this is why you don't see many adverts for GW in other magazines - GW can't compete with other companies in a wider market, so they just do their best to deny that the wider market is there - and sadly it works (with a little help from their hard-core mega fans), but it might not work forever, we'll have to wait and see.  

[General Biakal]

my problem is i only really get a inspirational vibe from the very narrow IG 40K field. even much of the rest of GW is not for me. so really... i will buy pretty much whatever they make for IG that i like and i can justify. thats why iv not got the thunderbolt yet even tho i want one SOOOO much. just because i cant justify £85 on a plane resin model that will need hours of "fixing" to even get ready to make!

[greenstuff_gav]

the problem is, of course, independents cant stay open more'n a couplea years; GW's business keeps 'em afloat and online retail is making it harder and harder for LGS to compete :(

Maelstrom, Helix, iksentrik, Artemis Blacks, Witch Engine the list goes on...
i heard Troll Trader stays afloat thanks to its MTG scene, Wayland have half a dozen tables in their warehouse.. gaming shops just don't turn a profit :(