Tunnels & Trolls old and new

[Billiam Babble]

I rather like Tunnels & Trolls.  My orange box edition 5, keeps coming off the shelf.  When I was struggling to learn D&D, Tunnels & Trolls seemed more accessible and "complete".  No, that's not it.  I started learning to DM through the Fighting Fantasy role-playing game, which encourages DMs to make up stats for monsters.  The survival rate of player characters seemed easy to maintain whilst presenting beasts larger than rats and bats to contend with.  T&T seemed similar to me.  T&T also encouraged solo-gaming.  Many UK players will remember the Corgi book range (often sold next to Fighting Fantasy and Lone Wolf gamebooks!)

Tunnels & Trolls is currently in it's 7th (7.5) edition.  It's no longer in print but a very nice PDF bundle can be purchased on RPGNow, as published currently by Fiery Dragon.  (The infamous 6th edition is the subject of hot debate, since there's more than a little bit of a copyright war going on ...)
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=59112


I failed a save throw, crumbled and purchased one, but I still love my old 5th edition set to death!


I still also fantasise about writing my own solo texts for publication (but enough about me).

Free to download scaled down rules by Flying Buffalo are available here:
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?cPath=311&products_id=54407

If you know Tunnels & Trolls please feel to skim or skip the next bit.  

T&T is both flexible and yet slightly flawed, but like all games which are flexible and yet flawed they beg for the invention of house rules.  T&T old and new uses a fair amount of irreverent humour, brutal Troll jokes mainly.  I think this irreverence comes out of the beer-n-pretzels pick-up-play/fast-play.  This comes from the use of Monster Rating, and the simplistic ensemble battle rules.  

Monster Rating
Room description: "In the room are 3 Dog-Wyrms (MR 30 each)."

MR 30 translates as
Attack: 4 Dice (d6) + 15 "adds"
30 Constitution (HP)
 
The "Adds" is half the monster rating and is reduced as the damage is taken.  The dice remain constant in T&T 7.5 (which is different from earlier editions)

Naturally, the MR system can become unstuck when you want to represent specific damage from specific weapons, armour and NPC attributes for specific saving throws and magical defences (MR doesn't always cater for these things), but through most of T&T it's accepted by players that the rules for monsters are different for ease-of-play to the more detailed rules for PCs.

If all three Dog-Wyrms attacked together they'd get to roll 12d6+45 to create their Hit Point Total.
The PCs would roll their own HPT (worked out from weapon types plus "personal adds").  The highest HPT wins and the difference is damage.  Damage is divided equally between the losers and then armour is deducted.

Did I mention that it's d6s only?  Buckets of em!

Interesting fact: T&T is one of the first ever games to use an attribute Saving Roll (Throw) so that almost any situation could be resolved by comparing an attribute like Strength to a difficulty like climbing a wall.  The 7+ task resolution in Traveller followed.  (From the primordial days when D&D, T&T, Traveller and Runequest were the only games)

The newer editions of T&T use "Talents" which will remind some players of Advanded Fighting Fantasy and more modern games like QUERP and WR&M where the players and GM can agree on invented universal skill like "Thievery" or Entertaining.  Another addition since T&T 5.5 is the "Wiz" stat which is now used instead of the Strength in casting spells, making Faeries and Wizards in general a little less muscley.  It's a bit like Power in Runequest.  In fact one of my first home-brew/house rules in 5th edition was for PCs to have Magical Strength also well as normal strength.
A really big change is the treatment of levels and Adventure Points (AP) - but I won't go into that now, and it certainly wasn't as bad as I first feared.

Okay.  This laptop has just run out of battery, so I'll keep this short and post some links in a bit.

Here's the character sheet for T&T 7.5 - from which you may be able to guess a few things about the system, or see some changes if you're used to older editions:



I'll post some links to resources and other current T&T products in a bit.

Nice little Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnels_%26_Trolls

 
Thanks. Bb

[Marchomer]

I must to admit I always think T&T was a B-series game cribbed from D&D (and I don't know why I believe it was an Italian game  maybe because I heard it was quite popular here in Italy in'80).
Shame on me!
Thanks to your input I find out a "new" interesting game! I see on the web other informations about T&T and now I must admit it's a very interesting game.
Obviously is quite impossible to find the Italian version of the game (I think the 5th edition)...

Good topic!

[Billiam Babble]

Sometimes games feel more "local" if the packaging is low-budget, or if there's no advertising.  - T&T seems to have been a much smaller franchise from the start.
What was it called in Italy?

Some T&T Resources:

Trollhalla
http://www.trollhalla.com/
- worship at the feet of the Troll God himself, Ken St. Andre, in this forum which apparently poses riddles to those who wish to join.  I hear good things, but I have not seen them myself yet (members only)

Vin Arr Vinn's Trollbridge
http://trollbridge.proboards.com/index.cgi
A nice forum, where discussions about older editions of T&T are welcome, as well as some play-by-board games in progress,

A resource of covers of editions:
http://www.tomeoftreasures.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=326

Flying Buffalo's page on RPGNow - includes free downloadable issues of Trollszine magazine and free simplified rules:
http://www.rpgnow.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=2238

Peryton Publishing - T&T compatible products
http://www.perytonpublishing.com/trollfriend.htm

The Art of Liz Danforth (T&T artist)
http://www.lizdanforth.com/?page_id=21

A useful site which points to T&T products currently on sale from different publishers.
http://www.tunnelsandtrolls.com/

There's quite a few amateur T&T "solos" out there, googling "Tunnels & Trolls" throws back all sorts of fan pages.
Like this random blog: http://trollhammerpress.blogspot.com/

[Marchomer]

Marchomer wrote

Obviously is quite impossible to find the Italian version of the game

I'm quite lucky...
I find on ebay a very rare copy of the Italian edition of T&T (for a ridiculous price ).

Interesting things about it:
1. In Italy T&T was published in 1988 by a publishing house not specialized in games.
2. The 5th edition is the only edition ever published in Italy.
3. Sometimes in the book there are rough (and funny) translation errors.
4. Blame on you, Billiam... I think I'm becoming a T&T fan!

I think the Italian edition is the version published by the Corgi Books in UK in 1986...


^ My T&T rule book, the pages are turned yellow because the time (very vintage and chic )

[Billiam Babble]

What an excellent find!  There can't be many pictures of the Italian edition on the web, so you have honoured us with this rare delicacy. :)
You must be right, it looks very similar to the 5th edition rules as printed by Corgi books. Fantastic stuff!
Looking around at a few blogs and forums, 5th edition, along with 5.5 is a preferred edition by many players, and lots of the solo texts available are written (or were re-released) for the edition you now own.
Technically you now have all you actually need to play, that along with a bucket of d6s. ;)  

Join me in worshipping at the Tunnel e Troll Shrine!  :D

[Marchomer]

I've found a nice link!

I hope it could be useful!

[Billiam Babble]

Ooh, there is much gossip and speculation about the 6th edition on one of the forums.*  To some it is a sin to even refer to the tome!  It is scratched from the records...

Excellent find!

*Awaits download*

..... *still waiting...*

Did you manage to download a copy?


EDIT:

Now I'm having an ethical dilemma about file-sharing ....
That file is on quite a few file-share sites, most of which have very dodgy registrations/demands for payment.

*2nd EDIT:
http://www.amazon.com/Tunnels-Trolls-6e-Mike-Hill/dp/1450520340
Credited to James Shipman (of Outlaw Press) who is guilty by forum-kangeroo-court of copywrite and IP theft, so maybe several wrongs do make a right. ;)

[Marchomer]

Billiam Babble wrote

..... *still waiting...*

Damn! I'm sorry...

Billiam Babble wrote

Did you manage to download a copy?

Oooooouh yeah!
With the blessing of Mortis and Rob, I could upload what I've found...


[UPDATE]

Mortis blessed me... but the file is too large to upload it on nabble, try this:
Tunnels & Trolls - 6th edition

[Billiam Babble]

Excellent!

Very cool!

[jaggedjaw]

I've heard of tunnels and trolls but never got into it. And now after reading that thing I'm just outright confused. How exactly do you figure out stuff like that?

[Billiam Babble]

The edition 5 rules are simplified and given away free here:

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=54407

Might be a better starting point.

[jaggedjaw]

thanks i'll look into that but i only ever saw it as a game for the adam.