The Last Warmaster

[Warlord Bhaird]

...and so it begins.

[MortiS-the-Lost]

That is a very nice hex-board! it reminds me of the realm maps from the old D&D Adventure modules

I know a few of our members have got some Warmaster models knocking around and I my self have some not quite so small 1/72 scale fantasy troops I don't use in any game at the moment, so I'd be interested in reading more about your rules

[Warlord Bhaird]

First of all as with most games i get into i sometimes find the original rules to be far too congested and tied down in little technical aspects that tend to get in the way of the essential strategic elements that keeps the game flowing smoothly.

Because i chose to use Kallistra's HEX terrain i needed to shape the rules around HEX movement obviously and so far this is looking like a very simple yet amazingly fun game to start playing.

All movement and unit wheeling is made dead simple using the six sided HEX's and tape measures are a thing of the past also. Still considering using measuring sticks to work out shooting range/arc of fire. Anyway it's all extremely precise and that's what i love about it.

Here is the basic turn sequence i'm currently working on. [Work in progress]

Movement Phase
The movement phase proceeds according to the command sequence as follows:

1) RALLY and REFORM Commands are declared for units who retreated.
2) STRAFE and SOAR Commands are declared for flyers.
3) PSYCHOLOGY Tests are made for certain troop types.

4.1) CHARGE Commands are declared and red markers are placed along the charge path towards the target.
4.2) REACTION Commands are declared: REPEL, HOLD or RETREAT then immediately take place before the charge is made.
4.3) After all reactions are completed the chargers roll 1D6 and move along the path into position according to the number rolled plus move value modifier.

5) MARCH Commands are declared and marchers moved at double move rate as long as they do not come into contact with enemy troops.
6) MOVEMENT Now both players 'alternate' moving the rest of their armies until all have been moved and white markers placed.

If a player does not wish to move a unit he places a move marker anyway to show that unit has completed the phase. Unless otherwise stated a unit that moves over difficult terrain has it's movement reduced to 1 HEX until it has cleared the terrain feature. Scout infantry, Fast cavalry & Flyers ignore movement penalties whilst moving over difficult terrain.

Note: To avoid confusion REACTION commands are made 'before' the charging unit is actually moved.

When all movement for both players is complete remove all white movement markers.



Ranged Phase
Both Players alternate marking ranged troops with grey markers until all ranged units are marked.
One player then selects a marked ranged unit and may target any enemy within range, placing the marker on the target. To work out the maximum/minimum range of specific weapons use the measuring stick.

Most ranged troops use the angles of the 1st front HEX to determine the shooting arc, Artillery/Machines have individual rules in this case.

Note: To be eligible to fire upon an enemy the shooter must have unblocked line of sight to the target.

Now check the ranged value of the shooting unit to determine how many dice are rolled.
Rolls of 1, 2, 3 miss while rolls of 4, 5, 6 hits.
Each hit is totalled and ARMOUR saves are made to negate hits.
Players now consult the ranged resolution table to determine what happens next.

When all shooting for both players is complete remove all grey ranged markers.



Combat Phase
The combat order of fighting units proceeds according to the CHARGE commands made in the movement phase. Now check the combat value of the fighting units to determine how many dice are rolled.

Note: Combat in this game is simultaneous hack'n'slash between both engaged sides.

Rolls of 1, 2, 3 miss while rolls of 4, 5, 6 hits.
Each hit is totalled for each side and ARMOUR saves are made to negate hits.
The side that scores the most 'unsaved' hits is the winner.
In the event of a tie both sides must immediately begin a fresh round of combat.
Each unsaved hit results in the removal of 1 stand of casualties.
Players now consult the combat resolution table to determine what happens next.

When all combat for both players is complete remove all red charge markers.



Magic Phase
Both players select a mage character then each secretly place either a SPELL, DISPEL or EMPOWER card face down on the table.

Note: Dwarf Runesmiths may instead strike The Anvil of Doom.

Both players then reveal the cards.
If both players have chosen SPELL cards player1 casts the first spell followed by player2.
If both players have chosen DISPEL cards no spells are cast this magic phase.
If both players have chosen EMPOWER cards no spells are cast this magic phase.
If one player has chosen SPELL and the other has chosen DISPEL then a opposed duel roll is made.

Empower cards enable a spell to be cast in the following magic phase that cannot be dispelled, the spell is effectively supercharged.

Note: Unlike ranged combat a mage does not require direct line of sight to cast spells against enemy targets.


Movement Table [Characters, Infantry, Cavalry, Chariots, Machines & Monsters]
WHEEL: Pivot wheels may be made for free before, during and after a unit has moved.
FORWARD: This is a regular default move in a forward direction.
MARCH: Grants a double move allowance but the unit must travel in the same direction without any turning and may not shoot in the ranged phase.
CHARGE: Represents a unit rushing into battle and grants D6 move plus move value modifier so charge moves are always random and can often fail.
BACKSTEP: While still facing forward a unit can move directly backwards 1 HEX.

Movement Table [Artillery]
Artillery cannot MARCH or CHARGE and if they are attacked then forced to withdraw or retreat they are automatically removed as casualties.

Movement Table [Flyers]
Flyers have 2 unique modes of movement STRAFE and SOAR one of which must be announced for each flyer in the command phase.
STRAFE: This is the default movement mode for flyers and allows the unit to both attack and be attacked in turn.
SOAR: Simulates a flyer flying high over the battlefield thus the only way it can be attacked is by other flyers.

Note: to represent a flyer in SOAR mode place the unit on top of a drinking glass to simulate the added hight.


Ranged Resolution
-Driven Back-
For each stand removed as a casualty by ranged attacks the target unit is driven back 1 HEX and this also includes REPEL shots.

For example: a unit of Warriors loses 2 stands as casualties so it is driven back 2 HEXES.

It is thus possible for ranged units to drive back enemy that declare a CHARGE against them before the chargers are actually moved. Units that are driven back are moved in the exact opposite way they are facing, very similar to a BACKSTEP move.

Note: unlike melee combat ranged attacks do not make the target subject to command tests, withdrawals or retreats.

-Annihilation-
When a unit suffers the loss of it's last stand from ranged attacks it is completely annihilated.


Combat Resolution
-Withdraw & Advance-
After a round of combat has been fought compare the number of 'unsaved' hits scored by each unit/multiple units. The unit that has suffered the most unsaved hits must roll a command test using the command value of the closest character model. If the losing side passes the command test they withdraw 1 HEX and the winners advance 1 HEX towards them again. If the losing side fails the command test they immediately retreat and the winners have the opportunity to pursue and destroy them.

Note: Multiple allied units fighting a single enemy unit count all unsaved hits as a single score.

-Retreat & Pursue-
After having failed a command test in combat the losing unit and winning unit now roll against eachother.
The number of dice rolled is equal to the move values of each unit, In the event of a tie another opposed roll is made.

For example: a unit with a move value of 1 rolls 1 die, a unit with a move value of 2 rolls 2 dice etc.

If the losing unit rolls higher they manage to escape to their sides table edge facing outwards and backs turned to the battle. If the winning unit rolls higher they have overrun the fleeing enemy and slaughtered them, remove the losing unit from the table.

Note: It is possible that the outcome of retreat & pursue may affect other units in the retreat path.

-Annihilation-
If both sides lose 3 stands the combat is over because they have completely annihilated eachother!

[MortiS-the-Lost]

Cool, I'll see about giving this try some time when I can get a decent sized Hex-grid ... hmm ... do you thing the old Mighty Empires card tiles would work?
your rules remind me a lot of the mechanics of the lesser known MB/GW collaboration BattleMasters, which used a HeroQuest derived Combat Dice system.

[Warlord Bhaird]

This really is the best place for me online because you chaps even remember BattleMasters!!!

That game was very inspirational to me when i began collecting the gear i needed. Yeah i remember it being like a battlefield version of HeroQuest and i cannot fathom why immaculate simple [Yet rewarding] games like these never really took off more in a bigger way. Don't remember any expansions being made for BattleMasters and i suppose if something works well it should be supported.

Still considering an appropriate title for my game. A heavily toned down house rules version of 'Warmaster' inspired by 'Warhammer' and 'BattleMasters' with the simplistic elegance of 'HeroQuest" hmm what should i then call it?.........

.....Quest of the Heroic Hammer Masters of Battle?

[MortiS-the-Lost]

Bhaird Jegeren wrote

This really is the best place for me online because you chaps even remember BattleMasters!!!

a lots of our members feel this way

Bhaird Jegeren wrote

Don't remember any expansions being made for BattleMasters and i suppose if something works well it should be supported.

There were in fact 2 expansions (tagged Re-enforcements) for BattleMasters which are less well known than the original game. One called 'Chaos Warband' and the other called 'Imperial Lords' both contained extra units for their respective armies

[Warlord Bhaird]

Pretty sure those 2 expansions you just posted will be the coolest things i will see today.

They are brilliant little blasts from the past.

If this is but a taste of the hidden secrets of your domain then i stand gobbsmacked already.

[Marchomer]

Battle Master.... I remember when, something like 13 years ago, I found it in a toy shop but I already got Warhammer Fantasy, so... I didn't buy it...
WHHHHHHHYYYYY?!!?!?!!??

By the way, your Warmaster is really interesting, I look forward more datails about your rules!

[Warlord Bhaird]

I guess you could say my home version is something in between Warmaster & BattleMasters.
... Advanced BattleMaster maybe.
As you can see i just spray painted each army in one colour because i suck at painting.
Although it would be nice to have my armies professionally painted one day. See what happens.
GW still sell these models on their website but their prices still stink for such small minis.
Made the decision to only buy 1 of each unit type for each army.
So far i have High Elves, Dwarfs, Skaven, Lizardmen and a Chaos Mortals army being built now.
Supposed to be committed to the prices boycott but starting to think nothing will ever change at GW.

Have not mentioned anything about unit stats so far so here is the basic concept.

Each unit has very minimal statistics and additional abilities will be added later.
For Example:

DWARF WARRIORS
Type: Infantry (Infantry, Scouts, Cavalry, Fast, Chariots, Monsters, Artillery, Machines, Flyers)
Move: 1 (HEX)
C/R Fac: 2 (Combat/Ranged Factor is the number of 'Battle Dice' the unit rolls)
Armour: 5+ (This is virtually the same mechanic as Warhammer)
Stands: 3 (Each 'Stand' in a unit represents a 'Wound' so this is very different from actual Warmaster)

Command: None (Only Characters have a Command value that is used for break tests etc.)
Range: None (Only Ranged type units can shoot obviously)
Special: ??? (This is where little bonus powers can come into play after a few basic test games first)

Note: Each army has 3 Characters mounted on 40mm bases instead of Stands: Lord, Hero & Mage.
As i mentioned earlier there are NO point values so players just set up a whole pre-set army.
Depending on strategy and good die rolls a smaller army should be able to win against a large army.

For Example: The Dwarf army is much smaller than The Empire army so Dwarf players should employ strong defense tactics and deploy units such as Cannons or Slayers in narrow chokepoints etc.

Part of the Kallistra HEX terrain charm lies in the placing of terrain features before the game starts.
So i bought a whole stack of Hills, Escarpments & Mountains for this purpose.

...Those Dwarfs can feel very at home on my table with a Mountain stronghold to defend.

Need to order some Fortifications, Woods, Rivers, Bridges and Roads next!!!

[Warlord Bhaird]

Well it's been a while since my last post for this solo project of mine.
Progress has been slow due to financial factors let's just say.
These Warmaster mini's still cost far too much for a range no longer being expanded.
Still they are quite good little substitutes for the Warhammer armies i will never own.
Begin a Warhammer army in the year 2011?... no thanks!
Currently i have these complete armies:
Bretonnia
Chaos
Dark Elves
Dwarfs
High Elves
Lizardmen
Skaven
Vampire Counts

With these on the way: (Hopefully by the end of the year)
Orcs & Goblins (Why the f*ck don't they just call them Greenskins?!)
Tomb Kings
Empire
Araby
Daemons

Anyway next year i plan to complete my battle table setup complete with more scenery, buildings, forest, oasis and some kind of large fortress slap bang in the centre!

When all this is done i can begin painting my armies and eventually start working on the game rules.
This brings me to one pretty important part of my project that is still undecided...

What to call it?

Basically this is my own house rules version of Warmaster but it's more in the spirit of the old MB game Battle Masters (Almost HeroQuest on a battlefield is what i'm aiming for here)

A simplistic game that could be endlessly expanded yet still retain it's pure strategic dynamic.
Never been a fan of over-complex rules.

If anybody can come up with a killer name/title/moniker for my project that would be awesome.

[Marchomer]

Eeer...  I think there was a little problem here!

[MortiS-the-Lost]

yea I don't know what's happened - it was quite an interesting thread

[Warlord Bhaird]

Return of the Warmaster

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Progress on this project is still going slow, however 'Stage 1' is almost completed.
Now in the 2nd year of collecting I'm looking forward to breaking all monetary ties to GW soon.
All further additions to this project will come from respectable companies.

To bring this thread back to life I'll need to fill in some blanks.
For those who are reading this thread for the first time this is a 10mm scale Warmaster themed project.
The idea was to design a reliable, player-friendly fantasy battle game/system with the scope of Warhammer.
But with the classic no-nonsense playability of HeroQuest, Advanced HeroQuest and Battle Masters.
The units in the game don't have points values so players just 'pick & play' because everything will be pre-set.
If players want to customize their armies or characters before the game that will also be possible.
One key aspect of this game will be the use of 'Unit Stat Cards' to keep the players focus on strategy.



Another idea is to randomize certain aspects of the game in a similar way to roleplaying games.
Charts could be used to randomize any number of game mechanics: spells, psychology, equipment, battlefield layout etc.
Much like the modular HEX terrain I'd want the 'core' rules to be solid enough to work with future module rule add-on's.

For example:
Starter - would be the solid core game without psychology, charge reactions, fleeing, command tests etc.
Warlock - could be a module heavily balanced towards magic.
Warlord - would focus more on melee combat, giving tons of bonus attack dice.
Knight - may lean towards making cavalry a stronger threat in the game.
Dwarf - this would grant all units in the game higher saves and additional wound points.
Elven - movement rates are increased giving units a much longer charge range.
Goblin - might be a rule set where psychology rules are amped up to universal paranoia proportions.  
Daemon - would make fighting Daemons a living nightmare for players.
Siege - all War Machines do extra damage and have a longer shooting range.

Anyway these are just possible idea directions and nothing has been set in stone yet.
Suggestions for better sounding module names much appreciated.



Hobbywise this was originally my plan below.
Stage 1. - Collecting all the available Warmaster armies. (One of each unit type.)
Stage 2. - Customization of the HEX terrain. (By a locally based terrain studio.)
Stage 3. - Painting the armies. (To be pro-painted, when the time comes.)
Stage 4. - Playtesting and rules finalization. (Had an informal test game and it played very smoothly.)
Stage 0. - The Lost and The Damned. (Ideas, inspiration, rules, game mechanics and collecting tips.)

Stage 0 is open, so any feedback from the community is welcome.

The Armies
Araby
Bretonnia (Including OOP Albion Characters & Emperor Dragon + Damsel.)
Chaos Horde (Including OOP Chaos Norse Marauders & Mangonels.)
Daemons* (Including old Epic 40K Greater Daemons, Fiends & Flamers.)
Dark Elves (Including OOP Corsairs.)
Dwarfs (Including OOP Hammerers & BoFA Dwarf Archers)
Empire (Including OOP Teutogen Guard, Knights Panther, Blazing Sun, White Wolves & Elite Halberdiers & Handgunners.)
High Elves (Including OOP Swordmasters, Phoenix Guard & Dragon Princes.)
Greenskins (Including OOP Forest Goblins, Spider Riders, Night Goblin Archers & BoFA Goblin Kings Guard.)
Kislev (Complete painted OOP Kislev army found on ebay.)
Lizardmen (Including OOP Slann Mage Priest & Crested Stegadon.)
Skaven
Tomb Kings (Including OOP Giant Scorpion & Alternative Sphinx.)
Vampire Counts



My goal is to make Fantasy Battles playable and appealing again.
We don't want a huge volume of conflicting messy rulebook interpretations involved.
The rules we do design will be simplistic, streamlined, balanced and WORK A TREAT.
If the initial trial game was anything to go by this will be a nice little secret we have here.

Playable Fantasy Battles Oldschool Style! lol

 

[LordBaal]

Does anyone have the magazines?