(My) Space Crusade Revamp (of Sorts)

[Kalrath]

Hi there!

It's time a share a few thoughts I've had. Some time ago, I dug up my Space Crusade Game for some family fun. After playing a couple of games, the crazy critters that inhabit my skull started machining an evil plot!

How cool would it be to bring this very cool game to the 21st Century? The evil looking critter in the corner answered eagerly (too eagerly!): "Yes yes! If you build it, they will come!"

Here are the early thoughts on the game (from generic to specific):

1 - I'm more inclined to have an entire hulk of the same race rather the amalgam of aliens the core rules offer.
2 - I always thought the marine commanders have too low a PV, as well as the dreadnought.
3 - The Extra-Heavy Weapons are deadlier the the base Heavy weapons, so, should be taxed appropriately.
4 - The genestealers should have a PV.
5 - No one should go by an enemy in an adjacent square without suffering the consequences.
6 - Gretchins kill Space Marine in CC way too easily.
7 - Where to from here?
8 - Err.. That's enough for now, no need to bore you to death!

The answers the Evil Critter's minions came up with:

1 - Either go for a Hulk of Orks or Chaos. Without changing any rules, I'd go for simple mini swaps. Something along these lines:

Ork Hulk:
Gretchin = Same
Ork = Same
Chaos Marines = Nobz armed appropriately
Chaos Android = Cyborks
Dreadnought = Killa Kan
Genestealer = Ork Kommando

Chaos Hulk:
Gretchin = Chaos Cultist
Ork = Chaos Renegade
Chaos Marines = Same
Chaos Android = Beserkers or Chaos Terminators
Dreadnought = Same
Genestealer = Chaos Spawn

Imperial Ship (Last minute entry):
Gretchin = Imperial Guard
Ork = Storm Trooper
Chaos Marines = Space Marine
Chaos Android = Servitor
Dreadnought = Same
Genestealer = Close Combat Terminator (Teleporting in to combat)

This could also be applicable to other races.

2.1 - I think since the commanders have LP, they should at least cost 5 more points, 1 for each additional LP = 15pts

2.2 - The Dread I think should go up 5 points. A really simple analogy, the dread has the firepower of 2 heavy weapon marines (10+10) and 1 bolter (5), and a power fist commander in CC (15), this comes up at 9 LP. 10+10+5+15-6 (Since the dread has only 3 LPs, at 1pt per LP, I'll subtract 6 from the total). So this adds up to 34. Let's round this down as any good Gamemaster would, also, the dread doesn't have the maneuverability of 4 marines, hence, 30pts for the dread. Pfew! That was long!

3 - These should cost 15 each. With these guys I can't really base the value on anything yet, other than a gut feeling. I'll let this one marinate.

4 - You kill the Genestealers, so, you should be rewarded for it. An no, survival isn't enough! Same CC ability as an android, higher armor value, higher speed, no shooting ability. Let's say the higher armor and speed more than compensate the lack of shooting ability, so they should cost something from 10 to 15 pts.

5 - I don't really see anyone being capable of doing circles around a foe whilst moving in close quarters. You get close, you get hit, unless you get close in order to kick some ass, that is. So, if you move in a square adjacent to an enemy, that enemy may make a CC attack without fear of retaliation. To prevent unscrupulous players form taking advantage of this rule, you can only enter the control area of an enemy (defined as the 8 squares around the miniature) without causing an attack if you're going to attack in close combat at the end of your move. This last part allows you to move through several enemies as long as you accept the risk. This rule was inspired by 3rd ed DnD attacks of opportunity, I take no credit for this one!

6 - Premise: Gretchins should be shooting at Marines, not running towards them at full speed to get in close combat. The way CC works, the marines need to try to shoot everyone (good bye Blood Angels supposed CC supremacy) and the alien player throws everyone in close combat, since they have much higher odds of getting kills. This takes away the tactical feel of the game and every game tends to go down the same way.
    Haven't fully figured out the ramifications. AV should be somehow considered in CC. To differentiate and still promote CC, both attacker and defender roll their CC dice, whoever scores higher wins the round (as usual). If the winner scored equal or higher than the AV of the looser, he will cause a number of wounds equal to the difference of both rolls (as usual). So, not much of a change, but possibly quite a significant one.

7 - I'd like to expand on these and figure out a points system that would allow me to convert alien foes to space crusade rules. For instance, change the dreadnought for a Daemon Prince or a Mega Armored Ork Warboss. However, the current dreadnought rules don't quite fit. The Daemon Prince wouldn't be armed with 2 heavy weapons and a bolter, he should be tailored to CC. But how many dice should he have? What about AV? I do have something in the pipelines. I'll post it when the idea as matured enough.

That's it for now. Thanks for sticking with me so far. What you think? Going in the right direction?

[jogar_t_hutt]

i like it so far

[Kalrath]

Cool!

So, on to some number crunching. Let's start with a few point values, from what I could gather, and put them to the test to see if they hold up.

AV 1 = 1pt (ie. Carapace Armor)
AV 2 = 3pts (ie. Power Armor)
AV 3 = 6pts (ie. Terminator Armor)
AV 4 = 10pts (ie. Dreadnought Armor)

CC 1W = 0pts (Base Value)
CC 2W = 1pts
CC 2R = 6pts
CC 2R+2W = 10pts

Bolter (Rngd 2W) = 1pt
Guass Rifle (Rngd 3W) = 2pts
Heavy Weapon (Rngd 2R + Area) = 7pts
Heavy Weapon (Rngd 2R) = 6pts
Extra Heavy Weapon (Rngd 3R + Area) = 12pts

Life Points = 1pt/LP above the first
Movement (Base 6) = 0.5pts/Sqr

Lets see if these hold up.

Gretchin M 8; AV 0; CC 1W; Rngd 2W; 2 pts
0.5*2+1=2 Check!

Ork M 6; AV 1; CC 2W; Rngd 2W; 3 pts
1+1+1=3 Check!

SM or CSM (Bolter) M 6; AV 2; CC 2W; Rngd 2W; 5 pts
3+1+1=5 Check!

SM or CSM (Heavy Weapon) M 4; AV 2; CC 2W; Rngd 2R; 10 pts
3+1+7-0.5*2=10 Check!

CSM (Commander) M 6; AV 2; CC 2W; Rngd 2R; 10 pts
3+1+6=10 Check!

Android M 4; AV 2; CC 2R; Rngd 3W; 10 pts
-0.5*2+3+6+2=10 Check!

Genestealer M 8; AV 3; CC 2R; Rngd 0; nill
+0.5*2+6+6=13 Seems fair

SM Commander (Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon) M6; AV2; CC 2R; Rngd 2W; LP 6; 10 pts
3+6+1+5=15 Checks out with the first post

SM Commander (Heavy Bolter) M6; AV2; CC 2W; Rngd 2R; LP 6; 10 pts
3+1+6+5=15 Checks out with the first post

SM Commander (Power Fist and Power Weapon) M6; AV2; CC 2W+2R; Rngd 0; LP 6; 10 pts
3+10+5=15 Checks out with the first post

So far so good. Now, here's where it starts to break down:

Dreadnought MKVII M 4; AV 4; CC 2W+2R; Rngd 2R*2, 2W; LP 3; 25 pts
-0.5*2+10+10+7+7+1+2=36; 11 points Over!!

Dreadnought MKVIII M 6; AV 4; CC 2W+2R; Rngd 2R*2, 2W; LP 3; 30 pts
10+10+7+7+1+2=37; 8 points Over!!

Dreadnought MKIX M 4; AV 4; CC 2W+2R; Rngd 2R*2+3R*2, 2W; LP 5; 40 pts
-0.5*2+10+10+7*2+12*2+1+4=62; 22 Points Over!!

Dreadnought MKX M 6; AV 4; CC 2W+2R; Rngd 2R*2+3R*2, 2W; LP 5; 50 pts
10+10+7*2+12*2+1+4=63; 13 Points Over!!

Maybe the move allowance should have a higher points value when you carry more the one weapon system. Analyzing Mission Dreadnought, the point's boost from each category (2 weapon Systems and 4 Weapon Systems) comes down to 5pts for an increase in 2 Sqrs between the MkVII and MkVIII and 10pts between MkIX and MKX. Lets see how this computes assuming the base value for movement is 6 for all calculations:


Dreadnought MKVII M 4; AV 4; CC 2W+2R; Rngd 2R*2, 2W; LP 3; 25 pts
-5+10+10+7*2+1+2=32; 7 points Over!!

Dreadnought MKVIII M 6; AV 4; CC 2W+2R; Rngd 2R*2, 2W; LP 3; 30 pts
10+10+7*2+1+2=37; 7 points Over!!

Dreadnought MKIX M 4; AV 4; CC 2W+2R; Rngd 2R*2+3R*2, 2W; LP 5; 40 pts
-10+10+10+7*2+12*2+1+4=53; 13 Points Over!!

Dreadnought MKX M 6; AV 4; CC 2W+2R; Rngd 2R*2+3R*2, 2W; LP 5; 50 pts
10+10+7*2+12*2+1+4=63; 13 Points Over!!

Now these are little more in line with what I thought the dread should cost.

So, now on to start testing these with something else.

Let's see how the opposing forces add up.

Regarding game balance, I feel that with 1 SM Squad, the SMs struggle quite a bit, and with 3 the Hulk Player is the one hanging on for dear life. So, the Sweet Spot is 2 SM Squads. Anyone disagree with this? This premise can have a big impact so, need to tread carefully.

Blips = 198pts (also counting the 3 genestealers)
SMs = 50*2=100pts (assuming 3 heavy weapons)

98 points to spare. Since the SMs have 2 order cards and 8 equipment cards between them, and taking the Mortis Thread on the subject, Orders would cost 10pts and Equipment 5pts each. *EDIT*

So the SM team goes for 50+20+10=80*2=160pts *EDIT*

Of course not all cards are created equal, but I'll tackle that when the kinks have all been ironed out.

How do these look?

* EDIT I the points for orders and equipment the wrong way around*

[MortiS-the-Lost]

I'll go into detail about the tweaks my group have made in the name of balance when I've got more time to write - but in the mean time you might be interested in cross referencing you're working here with This Thread especially TheVega's rather extensive number crunching  

[Kalrath]

Cool! Looking forward to it!

I've seen the thread, and I'm planning to use that number crunching goodness down the line. Going over it again I saw I had the card points wrong.

Cheers!

[Kalrath]

I'll get back to the math later on. In the meanwhile, i was thinking about the line of effect of the plasma gun, and was thinking it was too simplistic. After the suggestion from Mortis on his Screamer Killer thread. I decided to see if I could simplify the Line 12 Rule from D&D 3.5.

Here's what I came up with:

Draw a line from the closest corner of both the origin and the target squares. If there is no "closest corner" draw a line from the closest face of both the origin and target squares (i.e. shooting orthogonally as in the normal rules).

Now we have 3 options:

1 - Every square intersected by the line is affected by the weapon.

2 - Every square intersected by the line is affected by the weapon, EXCEPT where the line enters and exits the square on 2 adjoining sides. In this case the first square the line crosses (from the shooter) is affected.

3 - Every square where the line enters and exits on opposite sides is affected by the weapon. If the line enters and exits the square on 2 adjoining sides it has no effect on these squares.



Option 1 - Green and Orange squares in the picture are affected. This is the least time consuming but can affect larger areas.
Option 2 - Orange squares in the picture are NOT affected. This is more time consuming but well balanced in terms of effect.
Option 3 - Green and Orange squares are NOT affected. Also simple to implement but leads to a smaller area of effect. This one in effect indicates that your shot went between the two squares and has no effect in these.

Which of these options do you favor? It will be some time till I can get this tested. Any help would be much appreciated!

[MortiS-the-Lost]

I'd go with Option 1 - firstly because it's a lot less hassle to work out in-game and secondly because the other 2 options in some cases will leave you with gaps along the line where the weapon has no effect. IMHO if the line of effect passes though a square it should affect it.

The only tweak I would suggest making is to have the line drawn to the far corner of the target square (Fig. a)

not only does this provide a more realistic line-of-effect ...

...but it also stops unscrupulous players from using the rules to shoot round corners as in the diagram below



It also occurred to me (since making these diagrams) that the line-of-effect weapons should continue until it hits a wall or door - so under these rules line-of-effect weapons should target a square corner that is in contact with a wall or door.

[Kalrath]

Thanks for the input! I was more inclined to go with option 1 aswell. Option 1 it is.

As for the tweek, I went for the closer corner of the square for ease of figuring out the squares that would be affected. For the unscrupulous players, we could rule that if the line of effect touches any part of a wall/door, it ends the effect at that point. I do agree that the far corner is more realistic and elegant. Have to try these out and figure which one We prefer. Any interest in your group playtesting aswell? The more the merrier!

MortiS-the-Lost wrote

It also occurred to me (since making these diagrams) that the line-of-effect weapons should continue until it hits a wall or door - so under these rules line-of-effect weapons should target a square corner that is in contact with a wall or door.

Yes, the effect should continue past the target square, but generaly you'd shoot at a specific target and then figure the end result.

On a side note, where do you get all the cool top-view-2nd-ed-minis, and what program do you use? Photoshop, Gimp, Pagemaker? Hum?! What's your secret?

[MortiS-the-Lost]

yea I might give this a try with my group, but I'm worried about it slowing down game-play and causing disputes among some of our younger players.

Kalrath wrote

Where do you get all the cool top-view-2nd-ed-minis, and what program do you use? Photoshop, Gimp, Pagemaker? Hum?! What's your secret?

The top-down miniature illustrations I use for my diagrams are scanned for various 2nd and 3rd edition 40k rulebooks (with some chopping and changing done), I use Photoshop to put the diagrams together.  

Here's a PNG (with transparent background) of the ones I've used so far for you to use in your own diagrams if you wish

[Stevo]

Hi Guys, I know that this is an old post but I’m new to the forum.  
I liked the work that Kalrath did on his points system and have used the triangular series as the basis of a points system that I’ve developed.  Kalrath identified a problem in that his point system broke down when adding the calculated movement value to the larger multi-weapon miniatures.  I think that I have a solution and would like to share it.

In Mission Dreadnought, the cost of both slower dreadnoughts is approx 80% of the CER cost of both faster ones. I used this as the basis of my movement value; any miniature that moves 4 squares will cost 80% of the same miniature moving 6 squares.  That is, the movement value is not added to the overall points but is used as a multiplier.  The same goes for the Life Point value.

CALCULATING THE AV, RF, CC, MV & LP POINT VALUES FOR EACH MINIATURE

Armour (AV), Ranged Fire (RF) and Close Comber (CC) point values are all calculated using the triangular series of numbers starting at 0.  The beauty of using the triangular series is that any point value can be created for any value of ‘n’ using the formula;  Points = n(n+1)/2.  
Eg.  A Dreadnought's armour rating is AV 4.  This is worth 4*(4+1)/2 =10 pts

ARMOUR VALUE points (AVv) are based on the amount of armour that a miniature has:-
AV 0 =     0
AV 1 =     1 pt          (Carapace Armor)
AV 2 =     3 pts        (Power Armor)
AV 3 =     6 pts        (Terminator Armor)
AV 4 =     10 pts      (Dreadnought Armor)
AV 6 =     21 pts      (Tarantula Shield)

RANGED FIRE VALUE points (RFv) are calculated on the expected outcome of a dice roll:-
Bolter/Light Weapon (2w) =          1 exp hit =      1 pt
Guass Rifle (3w) =                          1.5 exp hits =  1.875 pts         (ie. 1.5*(1.5+1)/2=1.875)
Heavy Bolter (2R) =                        2 exp hits =     3 pts
Heavy Weapon (2R + Area) =        2+ exp hits =   4.34 pts
Extra Hvy Weapon (3R + Area) =  3+ exp hits =   8.51 pts
Dreadnought Mk VII/VIII =           5+ exp hits =   5.52 pts
Dreadnought Mk IX/X =                9+ exp hits =   15.98 pts
Tarantula (6R + Area) =                  6+ exp hits =   29.7 pts

CLOSE COMBAT ATTACK/DEFENCE VALUE points (CCAv/CCDv) are calculated in the same way as Ranged Fire.
CC (1w) =                       0.5 exp hit =     0.375 pts                 (ie. 0.5*(0.5+1)/2=0.375)
CC (2w or 1R) =              1 exp hit =       1 pt
CC (3w or 1R+1w) =       1.5 exp hits =   1.875 pts
CC (2R) =                        2 exp hits =      3 pts
CC (2R+2w) =                 3 exp hits =      6 pts

The MOVEMENT VALUE (MVv) multiplier  = the Square Root(Movement Rate[in squares]/6) where :-
• A miniature that cannot move diagonally subtracts 1 from its movement rate.   eg. Dreadnoughts & Tarantula.
• A miniature that cannot move and fire in a single turn, halves its movement rate.  eg. Tarantula.
• All other miniatures use their basic movement rate.
                                                                       MR MVv
Gretchin, Genestealer                                      8       x 1.15
Exarch, Warrior                                               7       x 1.08
Ork, Commander, Marine w/Bolter               6       x 1
Dreadnought Mk VIII & X                              5       x 0.91
Marine w/HW, Marine w/EHW, Android    4       x 0.82
Warrior w/HW,  Dreadnought Mk VII & IX  3       x 0.71
Tarantula                                                         2.5    x 0.65
 
The LIFE POINT VALUE (LPv) multiplier = the Square Root(# Life Points).
                                                                         # LP        LPv
Commander & Eldar Exarch                            6 LP        x 2.45
Dreadnought Mk IX & X                                  5 LP       x 2.24
Dreadnought Mk VII & VIII                            3 LP        x 1.73
All other miniature                                          1 LP        x 1

To avoid making this post longer than it already is, I have not included the logic on how the values for movement, life points and/or heavy weapons and multiple weapon miniatures were reached, but I’m happy to provide additional posts if people are interested.

THE FORMULA.  

A Miniature’s Points Value = ((1+ (RFv + AVv + CCAv + CCDv) x MVv x LPv)^n)  -1  where

RFv = Ranged Fire value
AVv = Armour value
CCAv= Close Combat value when Attacking
CCDv = Close Combat value when Defending
MVv = Movement value
LPv = Life Points value
n=0.9

RFv, AVv, CCAv, & CCDv are added together and the result is then multiplied by the [Movement Value] and the [Life Point Value].  This formula produces a result that is close but generally higher than the CER values in Space Crusade, so the points need to be compressed in get back into the range of Gretchin = 2 (lowest) to Dreadnought Mk X = 50 (highest).  Compressing by a factor of 0.9 produces the correct range.

EXAMPLES OF THE FORMULA IN USE

Gretchin
RF 2w; AV 0; CC 1w; MV 8; LP 1
= ((1+ (RFv + AVv + CCAv + CCDv) x MVv x LPv) ^n) -1
= ((1+ (1 + 0 + 0.375 + 0.375) x 1.15 x 1) ^0.9) -1
= (3.0 ^0.9) -1
= 1.7  (2 pts CER)     Same as SC

Space or Chaos Marine w/Bolter
RF 2w; AV 2; CC 2w; MV 6; LP 1
  = ((1+ (RFv + AVv + CCAv + CCDv) x MVv x LPv) ^n) -1
  = ((1+(1+ 3 + 1 + 1) x 1 x 1) ^0.9) -1
  = (7.0 ^0.9) -1
  = 4.8  (5 pts CER)    Same as SC

Marine Commander w/Power Fist and Power Sword
RF 0; AV 2; CC 2R+2w; MV 6; LP 6
  = ((1+ (RFv + AVv + CCAv + CCDv) x MVv x LPv) ^n) -1
  = ((1+ (0 + 3 + 6 + 6) x 1 x 2.45) ^0.9) -1
  = (37.75 ^0.9) -1
  = 25.3  (25 pts CER)  More than double its SC value and about par with a Dreadnought Mk VII

Dreadnought Mk IX
RFv 15.98; AV 4; CC 2R+2w; MV (4-1)=3; LP 5
  = ((1+ (RFv + AVv + CCAv + CCDv) x MVv x LPv) ^n) -1
  = ((1+ (15.98 + 10 + 6 + 6) x 0.71 x 2.24) ^0.9) -1
  = (61.4 ^0.9) -1
  = 39.5  (40 pts CER)   Same as MD


SUMMARY TABLE OF THE REVISED POINTS VALUES
In the original game there were only five unique CER values that covered all miniatures.  These were 2, 3, 5, 10 & 25.  As the new formula will create a unique point value for each miniature, a new CER range should also be created.  As a suggestion maybe all point values should be rounded to the nearest 5 points except when less than 20.  Therefore the rCERs would be 1-20 then 25, 30, 35, etc.  This allows all low and mid strength miniatures to keep their uniqueness but rounds off the values of the larger monsters, to make the maths easier.   The values produced are :-

Space Crusade Miniatures                      Pts   rCER
Gretchin                                                  1.7    2
Ork                                                          3.3    3
Chaos Marine                                         4.8    5
Chaos Marine w/HW                            6.1    6
Chaos Marine Commander                    6.2    6
Android                                                  6.9    7
Genestealer                                           10.3    10
Dreadnought Mk VII                             23.3   25
Marine                                                     4.8   5
Marine w/HW                                        6.0   6
Marine Commander w/Heavy Bolter   14.2   14
Marine Commander w/BP & PA          17.4   17
Marine Commander w/PF & PS           25.3   25
               
Mission Dreadnought Miniatures           Pts   rCER
Dreadnought Mk VIII                             29.5  30
Dreadnought Mk IX                               39.5   40
Dreadnought Mk X                                 49.8  50
Marine w/E-HW                                      8.4  9*
Tarantula      (Gunner costs 5pts extra)  17.9  18
               
Eldar Attack Miniatures                         Pts   rCER
Eldar Warrior                                          5.1   5
Eldar Warrior w/HW                             5.4   6*
Eldar Exarch              (cards cost extra) 16.6  17

I’ve also used the formula to create point values for the Marine Equipment Cards and all the extra creatures that Mortis, Mellizious, and other forum users have wonderfully created.  If you would like them posted them just ask.

Example.  SUSPENSORS EQUIPMENT CARD (4pts).  Suspensors increases a HW Marine’s movement rate from 4 squares to 6, thereby changing the marines value from 6.0 to 7.2.  As the Suspensors Equipment Card can be used by a max of 3 marines it costs 3 x 1.2 = 3.6 (4pts).

Cheers

[Kalrath]

Hi there!

2 years later, glad someone picked up on this!

I like your numbers. seem good. Any playtest done with this?

Stevo wrote

To avoid making this post longer than it already is, I have not included the logic on how the values for movement, life points and/or heavy weapons and multiple weapon miniatures were reached, but I’m happy to provide additional posts if people are interested.

I am!

I'd like to see what were your premises for "expected hits"

I have a probability table around somewhere with all the combinations for the red/white dice expanded to 4 or 5 red simultaneous dice. I think my premise for the table was a target value of 2 (Marine AV).

Cheers! Mate.

[Stevo]

Hi Kalrath,

It’s great to hear from you.  I had no idea how active people are on the forum and did not expect much feedback because your original post is a couple of years old.  So it is great to hear from the man that got me thinking about this subject.  It’s after mid-night now so I’ll post the logic over the next couple of days as I get my thoughts down on paper.

But to answer your immediate questions :-

These revised points have not been play tested yet in games; just tested by myself mucking around.  My group are all newbies and I’ll not expect any quality play for a couple for months so I think game testing will be on hold for that period.  But to be honest I have some faith in the formula.  All of the old 2,3,5 CER units and the 25,30,40,50 CER Dreadnoughts all produced the same values as the original game.  What the formula has done is separate the big bucket of 10 points units (Android, Exarch, Commander, HW Marine, EHW Marine, Tarantula) into unique values.  At present I have tested the Commander w/Power Fist and Power Sword  Vs the Dreadnought Mk VII (both worth 25 rCER) and it appears balanced, especially if the Dreadnought gets the first shots off.

As far as determining the expected hits for Ranged Fire, the target’s AV factor is not considered.  When determining the Ranged Fire value of the unit, you do not know what the enemy is yet.  If the target happens to have such a high AV that I cannot penetrate it, my RF value will still be the same, but the enemy’s cost will be high because of it’s high AV.  All the miniature knows before the game is the number and type of dice to roll and needs a point value to reflect just that.
I calculated the number of (potentially non-penetrating) hits this way.  If I roll 1w die six times, the range of outcomes are 0,0,0,0,1,2 so the average expected outcome is (1+2)/6= 0.5 hits. If I roll 1R die six times, the range of outcomes are 0,0,0,1,2,3, so the average expected outcomes is (1+2+3)/6 = 1 hit.  For all other combinations of dice the expected outcome is the sum of the 0.5 for each 1w and 1.0 for each 1R die rolled.  This then forms the basis for determining the points.

[Stevo]

POINTS VALUES FOR HEAVY WEAPONS (POINTS SYSTEM Part 2)

The following are my calculations on the point values of the heavy weapons in Space Crusade.
As mentioned in the previous post I’ve assigned a points value to the standard dice rolls;
2R = 2 exp hits = 3 pts
3R = 3 exp hits = 6 pts
6R = 6 exp hits = 21 pts.
This is the value for hitting a single target.  But all heavy and extra-heavy Weapons have an area of effect with the chance of hitting multiple targets.  This needs to be accounted for.

Firstly, the larger the area of effect, the more chance there is of hitting additional targets.  So, as a starting point I’ve used the 4th root (of the number of squares in the area of effect) to equal the total number of targets in the area.  So,
A 2x2 area of effect (Las-Cannon) is deemed to have 1.41 (4^0.25) targets.  
A 9x9 area of effect (Missile Launcher) is deemed to have 1.73 (9^0.25) targets.  
These might be too high, or too low, but it’s my starting point.  Even if they are incorrect, there is a far amount of error allowed here.  For a Marine w/Missile Launcher to increase its rCER from 6 to 7, the average number of targets has to increase from 1.73 to over 2, and from experience that number is way too high.  I know that the average number of targets for each weapon is subjective, but can be measured and tested in actual games over the next year.

HW ASSAULT CANNON:
2R hits can be split to kill multiple targets.  I’ve just assigned a value of 1pt for this special effect.
RFv = 2R + special value = 4 pts

HW PLASMA GUN:
All targets in LOF hit by 2R dice.  I’ve assumed that the LOF is 5 squares long.
RFv = (5^0.25) x 2R = 4.49 pts.

HW MISSILE LAUNCHER:
Target square will be hit by 2R dice and the remaining target area (3x3) is hit by the best die (best 1R die will be a 3 on 11 occurrences, a 2 on 9 occurrences and a 1 on 7 occurrences) so the expected hits = (3x11+2x9+1x7)/36 = 1.611.
RFv = [Target Square] 2R + [Area Effect] (9^0.25 -1) x 1.611 exp hits = 4.54 pts

EHW LAS-CANNON:
By combining its 3 shots, a target area (2x2) can be hit with 3R dice.
RFv = (4^0.25) x 3R = 8.48 pts

EHW FUSION GUN:
All targets in LOF hit by 3R dice and rolled separately.  I’ve assumed that the LOF is 5 squares long.
RFv = (5^0.25) x 3R = 8.97 pts.

EHW CONVERSION BEAM:
The Target square will be hit by 3R dice.  The area of effect is generally a (3x2) grid as the weapon has to explode against a wall or closed door.  Also any targets in the Line of Fire could also be hit. I’m also assuming that the firer never suffers any damage and the LOF is 5 squares long.

                                                    Roll       Exp Hits    # of targets               Points
Target Square                             3R           3              1                                 6 pts
Area Effect                                 3R-1        2.125        (6^0.25)-1                   1.88 pts
Line of Fire 2 sq from target      3R-2        1.375        (7^0.25)-(6^0.25)        0.1 pt      
Line of Fire 3 sq from target      3R-3        0.792        (8^0.25)-(7^0.25)        0.04 pt
Line of Fire 4 sq from target      3R-4        0.421        (9^0.25)-(8^0.25)        0.02 pt        
Line of Fire 5 sq from target      3R-5        0.19          (10^0.25)-(9^0.25)      0.01 pt        
RFv = 6 + 1.88 + 0.1 + 0.04 + 0.02 + 0.01 = 8.05 pts

MSW TARANTULA:
By combining its 3 shots, a target area (2x2) can be hit with 6R dice.
RFv = (4^0.25) x 6R = 29.7 pts

ELDAR LAS-CANNON:
By combining its 2 shots, a target area (2x2) can be hit with 2R dice.
RFv = (4^0.25) x 2R = 4.24 pts

DREADNOUGHTS:
A Dreadnought is unique in that they are the only miniature that are armed with multiple weapons.  They start each mission with awesome firepower but as a Dreadnought takes hits, it also loses its weapons.  So a Dreadnought’s RFv has to be the average of its fire power at each of its life point levels.  

For the calculations I’ve given the smaller Dreadnoughts 2 Heavy Weapons and the larger Dreadnoughts 2 Heavy and 2 Extra Heavy Weapons
ie. The Mk VII and MK VIII are armed with Plasma Gun (2R) and Missile Launcher (2R).
ie. The Mk IX and Mk X are armed with Plasma Gun (2R), Missile Launcher (2R), Las-cannon (3R) and Fusion Gun (3R).
All Dreadnoughts also have integral Bolters (2w).  Each time a LP is lost, the lowest value weapon is removed.  

DREADNOUGHT Mk VII & VIII:
[LP3] 1+4.54+4.49 = 10.03 pts
[LP2] 1+4.54 = 5.54 pts
[LP1] 1 pt
RFv = (10.03+5.54+1)/3 = 5.52 pts

DREADNOUGHT Mk IX & X:
[LP5] 1+8.97+8.48+4.54+4.49 = 27.48 pts
[LP4] 1+8.97+8.48+4.54 = 22.99 pts
[LP3] 1+8.97+8.48 = 18.45 pts
[LP2] 1+8.97 = 9.97 pts
[LP1] 1 pt
RFv = (27.48+22.99+18.45+9.97+1)/5 = 15.98 pts

SUMMARY OF HW RANGED FIRE VALUES (RFv)
HW Assault Cannon = 4 pts
HW Plasma Gun = 4.49 pts
HW Missile Launcher = 4.54 pts
HW Average = 4.34 pts
EHW Las-cannon = 8.48 pts
EHW Fusion Gun = 8.97 pts
EHW Conversion Beam = 8.05 pts
EHW Average = 8.5pts
MSW Tarantula = 29.7 pts
Eldar Las-cannon = 4.24 pts
Dreadnought Mk VII & VIII = 5.52 pts
Dreadnought Mk IX & X = 15.98 pts

Cheers