Hero and Wizard levels in early WFB

[MortiS-the-Lost]

Scumdog47 wrote

And yes, Warhammer 3rd Ed. was the best, except perhaps the magic system which was kind of clunky.
Also, what was up with Heroes with levels in increments of 5?

WFB3's rank/level system imitated AD&D somewhat (1st and 2nd WFB did also). I imagine that it originally reflected a D&D like leveling system probably present in early unpublished versions of WFRP which would later be replaced by the 'career system'.
I know from the introductory text in WFB2 that people working at GW and their friends were playing a Warhammer based RPG since the early days - games which developed the original Lustria background and various Moorcock inspired elements you find in 1st & 2nd but were later swept under the carpet.
How much the rules in these game had in common with D&D we may never know but it seems a fair guess that the pre-published WFRP probably had Heroes advancing in D&D like levels and would gain new abilities or stat increases each level. If we take what we know of the published WFRP (1st) working on (mostly) percentage based stats it's easy to speculate that when converting to WFB you'd end up with only every 5th level making a significant change to the WFB stats.

But who knows - Tony Ackland might, I'll see about asking him ...

 

[Captin Kabeered]

Hello MortiS,

This is a great read and a very interesting topic indeed.

I would be very interested to read / hear about your findings, when you are ready.

Quite a few things have always puzzled me about the way these games. One of them has always been how the different model um.. sorry player types level up and improve. Through out the game and even through out the series / collection.

For example I have never found a convent way to move form regular foot solder through to Master chief ... Umm... opps wrong game.. Hero Character..

Of for that matter why the wizards and magic is so hard to use.  Most of the time Wizards are consider (at least in the GW games I played) Rubbish to play  even though they have powerful spells and abilities. They soon die all because they are wizards and not Warriors.

Interesting observation : In Regards to War hammer  1st edition character generation Rule.
Wizards are the Same a Warriors.

A Wizard player is an optional extra when you create your Player Character as long as it has an Intelligence of  at least 5.

That is all fine and dandy except if you roll less than 5 on the charter generation step. You can Never Ever upgrade to become a Wizard all because the WH 1sted Expanse Threshold chart  never improves any of the Personal Profile for The Warrior.

On the point about a percentage system in Citadel Compendium 1  page 10 and 11 there is a section on Personal Characteristic in special situations  on Bluffing. The basic chance for success is worked out as 8 * Cool = % chance.

There was also an article from WD 53 I think - called: Watch Out there's a Thief About - Thieves in Warhammer  by Richard Hanniwell.

Which I had found interesting it appears to be a step between Warhammer 1sted and WHFRP 1sted . It has some interesting ideas.
 The article points out that to become a thief a character's initiative of 3 . At different points it says +3 and 3+ as requirements for  the different types of thief  class options.

Ok I know this is pre- WHFRP . Looking back at Warhammer 1sted the Maximum Character advancement  for Initiative level is Human = 20, Elf = 24, Dwarf= 10.  On top of that the player would have rolled up a higher initiative value of more than 3 form the start.  

An Idea could be the thief's intuitive value of 3 is in fact  30 ( 30 /10 = 3) this way if it is 30 then warhammer 1st ed players could quest and gain experience to get 30 points and then transfer over to become a thief.  
 Oh hold on the experience system stops at 1500 for warriors and 3000 for wizards.  

It would have been nice if the  Warhammer 1sted advancement system had been continued. Also what were the Maximum values for the Personal profile ? does anyone know ?

oh gosh... I have rambled on for ages.

Great post Mortis until next time  .